Is there a difference between the two bodies in any way,is one a higher quaility,As always I am trying to get a better education on midyears.
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
Larry:
There were many minor differences in the two over the 4 year run of Ionia produced bodies. There was much competition between the 2 plants, to stamp out "better" assemblies, and by many accounts, Smith may have "caught up with" St Loo by mid 1965, and surpassed them by end of production at the end of 1967's model year.
Caution: This Is A Touchy Subject For Many Mid Year Owners, So Be Forewarned That You Will Encounter Widely Differing Opinions On This Subject.
Here are some differences that are fairly well accepted:
1. Fastening methods for door skin to steel door frame.
2. Amount of blackout overspray to various components in engine bay.
3. There were no sidepipe cars produced at Ionia.
Here are some that I am not absolutely certain about:
1. The mysterious "hump" in AO Smith hoods.
2. Birdcage/underbody steel paint color. Black over the zinc chromate.
Joe -
Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
Joe - I have a 67 Dow Smith car.....can you elaborate on the hood bulge? I hadn't heard of that......CraigComment
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
Craig:
This is one detail that is mentioned by only a very few people, but, again, I cannot verify whether it is an anomaly, or the norm. There is one fellow who will remain nameless(a supposed big muckey-muck NCRS judge on the east coast) who harps on it continually, using his personal car as a model.
To wit: If you eyeball the "line" between the fenders and the hood, you will notice that the hood does not exactly follow the accurate vertical alignment with the fenders. Rather, the hood will be noticeably higher than the fenders at the mid-point, and level with the fenders at the fore and aft termini.
JoeComment
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
Joe, I have a Smith car 67, and noticed this bulge in the hood. I tried several times to adjust it out, and failed. Great info.. KurtComment
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
Thx Joe - well.....mine doesn't have that....it seems to have a slightly opposite problem. On the RH side, at the radius area where the hood rounds to the front edge, it is slightly proud of the hood surround panel, and flush all the way back with the RH fender for the most part. There are no shims under the hinge, so dropping it would require more agressive means, but the end result would be the hood would be low compared to the fender line "vertically" without spacer blocks in the drip rail to form it up. The drivers side is perfect. So I left it alone......CraigComment
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
I had this problem on the passenger side of my '65 coupe. Fixed it by separating the bond between the hood surround the inner fender panel. Then I shimmed to hood surround up to match the hood countour and re-glued it.
This was done without damaging the paint by drilling a series of holes thru the bond line and then "connecting the dots" with a carborundum wire saw. The type we used to saw Coke bottles with. Really a simple procedure and well worth correcting that annoying mismatch.Comment
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
Kurt any chance you can post a picture of your hoodComment
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
Larry, Wish I could... The body is all apart, in the process of a Body-off. KurtComment
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
I have seen this on many cars and believe it is due to assembly of the front end. If you want to see the panels become even, lift up on the rear inner fender. It appears this "twist" is due to how the inner fender is aligned. If you disconnect the splash pan and front rocker panel attachments and lift up on the panel, try a couple of different points, you will see the fender rise to meet the plane of the hood. This may have been due to procedure differences in assembly or not following procedure.Comment
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
My 66 roadster is a Smith car and yes it has the hood bulge. As a matter of fact, I am quite relieved to have learned of this unique feature. Up until now, I always thaught the bulge was due to a poorly executed front end repair. Wish I could explain the ill fitting drivers side door as easily.Comment
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
Joe -
A.O. Smith and St. Louis used EXACTLY the same hood; A.O. Smith molded them and supplied both their own assembly line and the St. Louis assembly line. The only explanation for a difference in hood-to-surround flushness between A.O. Smith cars and St. Louis cars would be a slight difference in the shimming/setup of the off-line front clip bonding fixture in each plant where the upper surround, nose panel, park lamp panels, and inner fenders were bonded together. Has nothing at all to do with the hood.Comment
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith - Addendum
My '67 is an unmolested A.O. Smith car and has the same "bulge" condition - very common.Comment
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
Did A.O.Smith build all the hoods,big & small block & service replacement?Did they build them at more than one plant? I have seen hoods with different types of rivits (not counting pop rivits). Who built the doors ? A.O.Smith doors did not have the same rivits as St Louis doors....BillComment
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Re: St louis compaired to A.0. smith cars
John:
As you know, not all cars have this elusive "hood bulge", and I am willing to bet that it can be found on many St Louis bodied cars, as well. Considering the QC of the period, as well as the generous body "line" allowances during the build process.
I did not mean to imply that the hood is the culprit, but, was only using the same terminology as that of the "big muckety-muck judge who will remain nameless". Perhaps a better term would be "vertical misalignment of the hood-to-fender line at fore-and-aft midpoint".
Again, I listed this "phenomenon" as "unverified", and only to pass on what the unnamed judge seems to believe. My personal belief is that it is not common to all cars, whether they be Smith or St. Louis. I absolutely believe that the lack of such a "bulge" should not be qualifying evidence that a certain car is or is not a Dow-Smith car.
AFAIAC, the differences between the 2 assemblies are far too subtle to quantitatively determine "pedigree". IMHO, the only qualifyer is the sidepipe issue.
JoeComment
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