past judging records

[Stephen W.]

This came up in an earlier post and I would appreciate help finding out if my car was ever judged. Is there a place I can research my vin to see if there is any history of judging?

[Dick W.]

Re: past judging records

Roy Sinor, the National Judging Chairman, is the keeper of all past judging records. You can contact him through the link on this site.

[Todd G.]

Posting judging on NCRS Site

I am pretty new to NCRS, so I am sure this has been discussed/debated before -- but why not post all NCRS judged results on the NCRS website, and make it public information for at least the NCRS members? Possibly it is already on here somewhere and I have not found it. Seems like this would be a tremendous and efficient resource for anyone looking at a car, wanting to know its judging history.

[Mike E.]

Re: Posting judging on NCRS Site

A false assumption is often made. "This car was judged three years ago and it received XX.X points, so it's a top flight/Duntov/whatever car." The only assumption that can be made is that on THAT DAY, AT THAT MEET, that is what that car scored. I am aware of many owners who have borrowed original/correct parts that were easily installed/uninstalled in order to score well at an NCRS meet, and then were immediately converted back to non-original/detectable reproduction parts. Is that ethical/right? No, but it is done. If we published scores/results, I believe that many incorrect assumptions would be made. FWIW

[Jack H.]

Add on...

In addition to what Mike says, this site is not restricted to NCRS club members. It's intentionally open to all for the purpose of attracting new members. Also, the administrative chore of validating each site user's current paid-in-full membership status would be substantial overhead...

[Gene B.]

Re: Posting judging on NCRS Site

I agree with Mike. In addition, as we know more about the cars, the judging would be more stringent today than it was say 5 years ago. I honestly believe a car that top flighted say 5 years ago, may not top flight today, even if there was no deterioration to the car. I don't necessarily agree with this, but that is certainly the trend.

my 2 cents

Gene

[Michael W.]

Re: Posting judging on NCRS Site

Since when are the details of judging results anybody's business other than between the owner and the judges themselves?

[Grant M.]

Re: Posting judging on NCRS Site

Mike,

I agree with your point, but would add that it equally applies to use of the terms "top flight" etc, when advertising a car for sale (even by NCRS members). As previously noted, a car was judged "top flight" at a specific point in time and by a specific panel of judges and may never merit that rating again. Using that result in advertising the car in the absence of any verification means that nothing was changed (ie parts removed as has been suggested) since the judging, is questionable.

By the way, aren't the NCRS terms "top flight" etc copyrighted by NCRS as is "Bloomington Gold" etc by that "other" organization?

grant

[mike cobine]

Re: Posting judging on NCRS Site

I don't think anyone is trying to pry into people's personal business, but the opposite has been true. Those getting an award are quick to point it out when selling. Check eBay, there are many examples of "Top Flight" cars for sale.

The problem lies in did they get Top Flight by one or two points or did they max out? Did they get it this week or back in 1981? And there are so many examples of certificates out there, if a person can create a tank sticker or window sticker, it sure isn't hard to create a Certificate.

I think they just want an available means to confirm the award. After all, if people called for every car looked at on eBay, you'd need a full-time staff to answer the phone.

[Reba Whittington]

Re: Posting judging on NCRS Site

NCRS never reveals the percentage that a car scores even as the award is presented at the meet. The overall score is known only to the tabulators, the judging chair, and the car owner. Because the judging is done by sections, judges do not know the total score of any car.

In addition to what has been said about the award representing the way the car was on that specific day, let me add that the quality of judges present may enter into the equation. My car is not a top-flight car, but it earned that award at one meet where the judges were not knowledgeable about 1972s.

[Chuck G.]

Re: past judging records

Roy gets the Judging Summary Sheets, not the individual section score sheets. The actual judging sheets are sent to the car's owner. He/she should have them.

My point? If your car was judged, Roy could tell you that it scored a 97.2% score at the XXX meet in ??? year. He couldn't tell you, and doesn't even have the individual scoring sheets to see where deductions were made. Chuck

[Jack H.]

Roy has a bit more info...

than just the final award standing (Top Flight, Second Flight, Third Flight)... He retains the NCRS Judging Summary Sheets. These show how many points were lost in each functional judging category (Operations, Interior, Exterior, Mechanical and Chassis) as well as what scoring contribution was made by milage driven bonus. But, that's the extent of what's archieved.

The reason the individual score sheets are retained only by the owner, is it's club policy to encourage owners to IMPROVE upon their restorations. We don't want there to be specific 'memory' of how this/that car fared the last time it was judged to insure each judging begins with a clean slate....