c1- 1958 - stainless bolts - NCRS Discussion Boards

c1- 1958 - stainless bolts

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  • Susan G.
    Expired
    • May 31, 2005
    • 136

    c1- 1958 - stainless bolts

    Hi, it is not origional I know but do you loose points if you use stainless nuts and bolts for bumpers, engine compartment etc. This is my second restoration of this car and the stainless was great to remove but the standard bolts replaced 25 years ago all broke and had to be drilled again. What is the opinion out there about stainless? While I am at it, what about under coating - do you loose points? How do I preserve my 58 better than last restoration but be as origional as possible. Regards susan
  • Jack H.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • April 1, 1990
    • 9906

    #2
    Re: c1- 1958 - stainless bolts

    Remember, the objective of 'restoration' is to make it APPEAR as the factory originally built it. When you deviate from originality, and it's visible, expect judges to allocate originality points associated with those items along a 5-axis universe: Finish, Date, Installation, Configuration and Completeness. Then, for each axis that's violated, go surrender 20% of the originality points associated.

    Specifically, SS replacement components are addressed by the Standard Deduction tables in the NCRS Judging Reference Manual, Section 4, Rule 11, and a table is given ranging from a loss of 50% of originality to 75% of originality depending on the items that are now SS. In the case of bumper bolts/nuts, that would fall under the Misc column of the table with a mandatory 50% deduction. Since the headmarks on the SS bolts you use will probably be different that recognized factory originals, my hunch is it'll call judges attention to the fasteners.

    Bottom line it's your car and you should do with it as you please, notwithstanding what 'judges' will do/say. In the grand scheme of things, bumper bolts/nuts are a MINOR fraction of the car's overall score and it shouldn't cost you a significant amount if you DO decide to intentionally deviate from factory original assy methods here. But, don't be surprised if you do and wind up losing a few points when the car is judged. Remember, there's 4500 total points in involved and you can EASILY sacrifice a few here/there and still have a Top Flight vehicle!!!

    Comment

    • Christopher R.
      Extremely Frequent Poster
      • March 31, 1975
      • 1599

      #3
      Re: c1- 1958 - stainless bolts

      Use original type bolts and nuts, and also use antiseize. It's unlikely you'll be using your car in bad weather and salt, so these fasteners ought to come out 25 years from now.

      There should be some undercoating on the fenderwells, but none on the underside of the car.

      You don't really need to take extraordinary methods to preserve your car because it doesn't see severe conditions or extended use.

      Comment

      • Debra P.
        Expired
        • September 30, 2004
        • 147

        #4
        Re: c1- 1958 - stainless bolts

        Hi Susan,
        I would get the correct bolts, Corvette Central has them. I usually go around my unrestored 58 with a silicone lubricant spray made by Dynatex. Find them on the web, great stuff, it foams out & stays where you spray it. The next day I wash my car. I figure this gives the silicone time to soak in. As far as undercoating, my car lost a Star costing the previous owner a Bowtie Award. I was told by the previous owner that they power washed the chassis of the car. By removing the undercoating, eventhough it revealed all the inspector marks from G.M., they still punished this very original 58. I don't blame the previous owner for being so angry. He explained the whole story to me & it was backed up by a few of the Judges who said they really had a hard time making the decision to penalize the car. As you can see I am still dismayed NCRS made that decision. There are so few 58's still intact. There may be more unrestored 58s out there, as was brought to my attention by some members. After I had stated in some of my posts that I had the only unrestored 58 in the country. I would only know that if it was told to me by NCRS & it was by our chairman. There may be alot of 58s unrestored but were parts on them changed ? If there is any help you may need, feel free to email me. I will send you pictures of whatever I can, to help you bring your 58 up to NCRS standards. It looks as though 58s are becoming the most sought after of all the C1s. I read that just last night while reading all the Vette sites. Kudos to you for bringing another 58 back to life. It's great fun just trying to keep my original,original. LOL But it must really be rewarding, bringing one back to life.
        Cheers,
        Deb
        NCRS
        42699

        Comment

        • Gene B.
          Very Frequent User
          • May 31, 1990
          • 144

          #5
          Re: c1- 1958 - stainless bolts

          I agree with Debra. Use the correct bolts and antiseize works great.

          In regards to Debra's comment. I cannot believe the punishment 58s seem to get. They were not highly regarded as good cars back when they first came out due to all of the chrome and then were not regarded as good restorer cars. Now all of a sudden the cars are being restored, or preserved as in Debra's case, but most judges don't know much about them.

          I painstakingly went to a junk yard and puller original headmarking bolts form inside old pickups; beadblasted, wire buffed and sent out for plating. No one really noticed that much. All the judges I had said I must have had extensive repairs done to the frint of my car. Since no repairs were done to the front I said, "NO, why do you say that?" The response was becasue I had the stabilizers under each fender. When I told them that was supposed to be there, I was told that I didn't know what I was talking about. I had to get Tim Mickey the Nat'l Team Leasder over to explain it to the judges.

          I was also told that my wheels were supposed to be body color. They subtracted 5 point per wheel for the color. I told them no that is not true for a 58. They finaaly agreed after I should them the verbage in the JM. The response was well, they should be glossy, therefore not the deduction stands. I went form the wrong color to the right color, but not glossy enough, so I still had the points lost.

          Then came color. One judge said he didn't like the color of my car, said the charcoal was too light. He pulled out a paint chip color sheet and showed me that he chip was indeed darker than my car. I also have a paint chip sheet, and my chip was lighter than his. He then accused me of leaving my paint chip out in the sun to lighten it to match the car. Needless to say I was rather ANGRY. Still am, and that was in 2004.

          I could go on but...enough said.

          Back to the issue at hand. Put the car the way you want it. If the stainless steel is what you want then use it. If you are using SS to make the bolts easier to remove if necessary, then I would use teh correct bolts, since with anti seize you won't have the problem. They will be easy to remove even 25 years from now.

          Glad to see you have resurrected another 58.

          Good Luck!!!

          Comment

          • Roy B.
            Expired
            • February 1, 1975
            • 7044

            #6
            Re: c1- 1958 #03

            You think 58 is hard to judge ! I had #03 58 at my home for about one year and it was a FI car. nothing much in the JM matched this 58 and it was un-restored original. I also remember NCRS stating they never made a BLACK 58 till I and Noland wrote how to scratch your trunk area to find the original color . Remember when the JM said they never made a BLACK 54 and on and on , we learn as time goes on that is why we now have a 2,3,4,and then 6,7,8, new judging manuals coming.

            Comment

            • Gene B.
              Very Frequent User
              • May 31, 1990
              • 144

              #7
              Re: c1- 1958 #03

              It won't be long before no one can get a Duntov award, let alone a top flight. We keep changing the JM with updated information. I would be very surprised that a car which receives a Duntov award in 2004 would not get one in 2005. I will bet a car that got a Duntov award 10 years ago would not get one today. And not because of deterioration.

              Comment

              • Roy B.
                Expired
                • February 1, 1975
                • 7044

                #8
                Re: c1- 1958 - stainless bolts

                When I did have my 55,57 and 67 judged 25 more years ago it was simple.To day I would have to sand the back tire marking off, add paint over spray in areas, seamer weatherstripping yellow glue here and there, add numerous stickers to put on here and there, get numbers correct from the shocks up,and pay more for parts then I paid for the Corvette I got. I'm not saying that is a bad thing , just interesting because I don't show my cars any more but for Berkeley 05 and the 05 Utah meet which will be the last time because it's the 50th year.I drive my Corvettes to much to enter it with restored Corvettes again.Yes I've heard it all! good and bad! just my thoughts , but may be some day NCRS will put together a driven flight class.

                Comment

                • Gene B.
                  Very Frequent User
                  • May 31, 1990
                  • 144

                  #9
                  Re: c1- 1958 - stainless bolts

                  You are correct that maybe the idea of a driven flight class would emerge. but as anything goes, it woud not be long before someone would argue over what is consider driven and not driven. Like the guy who trailered his car to Joplin, MO for the regional and then outisde of town by 5 miles or so, stopped, unloaded the car and then drove to the meet claiming to have driven to the event to get mileage points.

                  I think one of the issues NCRS has to deal with is that over time some items which were correct are no longer correct. Someone who has a strong personallity see or believes that something is correct when it is not. This gets passes down over time to be correct and finally ends up in the JM as the correct item. It is like the trico vs Anco wiper blades for 67. For years the Trico was the correct. Then when no 15' "V" Trico blades are avaialble or they are cost prohibited, Anco appears to be the correct blade. Not sure how or why this changed but it did.

                  Having said this, NCRS is still the best source of information for the cars and while things did not go well for me at the Regional event, I still support NCRS. I can't hold the rest of the organizatrion for my feelings of one specific judge.

                  Gene

                  Comment

                  • Susan G.
                    Expired
                    • May 31, 2005
                    • 136

                    #10
                    Re: c1- 1958 - stainless bolts

                    Hi to everyone who has responded to my stainless question and thanks for your thoughts. I restored my car body off 25 years ago, I showed it and then drove it and parked it for 10 years. My car is now a mess! All the origional bolts are rusted and breaking. The hours of work that went it making it an NCRS car were for not. I am rebuying the origional weatherstrips, bolts etc again. I have more money in my 58 now than I could buy a top flight car for today. When I say I am pondering the ss it is because you can not drive your car and live in Canada with humidity and salt etc and keep it. I have watched all my NOS weatherstrip rot off my car right along with the tires. The 10 years of storage was very hard on my car. When you are doing a car for a second round you start to think about preserving alot more than matching bolt marks. Enough of that, but I would love to show again but want to drive my car and have some fun too - I think a driving class is needed or what about a NCRS concourse show and shine? I have just replaced every gasket and seal on my car they also have rotted over time. There needs to be a place for driving cars that are original too. Sorry for opening up the can of worms and to those I have affended - wait until you do your second resto. So Ray I appreciate where you are coming from - regards susan

                    Comment

                    • Rob M.
                      NCRS IT Developer
                      • January 1, 2004
                      • 12725

                      #11
                      Re: c1- 1958 - stainless bolts

                      I'm not sure about this but I thought each chapter can start whatever additional competition or class beside the existing (and trademarked) classes. If a chapter feels a need for an additional class it can simply start it...

                      greetings,
                      Rob.

                      PS please correct me if I'm wrong here but this is what I understood from our bylaws...
                      Rob.

                      NCRS Dutch Chapter Founder & Board Member
                      NCRS Software Developer
                      C1, C2 and C3 Registry Developer

                      Comment

                      • Gene B.
                        Very Frequent User
                        • May 31, 1990
                        • 144

                        #12
                        Re: c1- 1958 - stainless bolts

                        Susan, I drive my car too, although not in the winter months of Minnesota. (Not much different that Canada). You can see pictures of my car on Rob's website, www.C1Registry.com, vin # J58S103741. I used original bolts and the restoration was completed in 1999. Still have some of the original weather stripping.

                        Have fun with it.

                        Gene

                        Comment

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