Knock Off wheels - NCRS judging

[Charles N.]

I have a set of original Knock Off wheels that came with my 65 Coupe. The third owner, Bill Mock of Oklahoma went to the local Chevy Dealer when he got the car in the late 70's and bought this set of knock offs over the counter as NOS parts. the wheels have the numbers stamped on them like original wheels do but the year is 68.

My question is are these considered original knock offs by NCRS judges or are they considered aftermarket and therefore a deduction? This is an expensive answer as I am considering buying a correctly dated set for 65 if the 68 dated wheels are not considered original equipment. These wheels are not Kelsey Hayes aftermarket that you could buy from numerous parts houses. These apparently were only sold over the counter at Chevy dealers.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Chuck Nixon

[Mike M.]

Re: Knock Off wheels - NCRS judging

only wheel that will be judged regarding stamped date code of assembly will be the spare. the other four's stamped dates aren't judgeable due to the location of the stamping. pick up an appropriatly dated wheel to serve as your spare and you're inappropriately dated service replacement wheels probably won't be deducted. mike

[Jack H.]

Re: Knock Off wheels - NCRS judging

Mike's advise is on the money. The wheels will qualify as 'real' and should get you full originality credit. But, as Mike explains the 1968 date on the spare is going to be a 'red flag' to the judges and they 'may' then decide to check further to see what they can see regarding the four mounted wheels by looking at the backside. As Mike explains it's HARD to see PN and date coding marks on mounted wheels, so some judges may give you the benefit of the doubt and let the mounted wheels 'slide'. But, other judges may decide the spare is clear evidence the wheels were added after the fact and decide to look further.

Two NCRS rules come into play. First, each part is viewed during judging in a four axis universe: Finish, Date, Installation, Configuration and Completeness. Absent any specific guidance to the judges in the applicable Judging Guide or in the NCRS Judging Reference Manual (e.g. Standard Deduction tables), each of the four axis are considered equal for the distribution of originality points. Therefore, with the wheels being dated 1968 and the car being a 1965, you have the potential for a 20% loss of originality points on the wheels.

Second, NCRS standard deduction rules require a FULL deduction for owner/dealer inspired option addition/deletion actions. It's possible judges could see the 1968 date code and begin to look further for coroborating evidence that the car was a factory original KO equipped vehicle. If they decide the KO wheel option was added AFTER the car was originally factory produced, it would qualify for a FULL deduction on wheels.

Bottom line, you have a WONDERFUL set of parts here (real McCoy Kelsey Hayes KO wheels) that judges don't see very often. But, with the wheels having an obvious service replacement date code on them, two red flags will raise: (1) was the KO wheel option added to this car?, and (2) certainly ONE wheel isn't correct/original to the car and would qualify for a 20% originality deduction on that wheel + perhaps others....

[Wayne M.]

Pick the wheel with faintest "8" for your spare

If your stampings follow the format used during production (eg. B_1_4_66) the depth of the stamping usually is very weak towards the end, or the start, probably because gang-holder was whacked on a spherical surface. In maybe 2 out of my 5 originals, the last digit barely shows.

Anyway, have the "black hats" even come to a consensus on the coding format ? I've seen several variations.

Just checked, and it's possible to read the codes on the disc brake front wheels when mounted (without a mirror).

[Charles N.]

Re: Pick the wheel with faintest "8" for your spar

Great comments guys and thanks. Looks like I buy the set of 65 wheels and sell the 68 wheels. Probably can't get top dollar for the 68's even though they are really nice. Then again how many times will I have it judged and I could always take the correct 65's off my coupe and put them on the convertible as long as I was not showing both cars at the same time. I have the correct steel wheels for the convertible as is. Too many choices and very expensive ones at that.

Chuck

[Charles N.]

Re: Reading date codes correctly

One last question on the wheels. To read the date codes on the wheels are the codes similar to other GM coding IE: B 14 66 would read February 14th 1966?

Thanks,
Chuck

[Patrick H.]

Re: Reading date codes correctly

Correct.

To be honest, if you like the look, I'd leave them.

Why? Well, how many 50-something NCRS judges do you think are going to be able to look under the car at the installed rim and read the date codes? I'm thinking it's a small number, if any. And what would you lose for the wrong date on the spare rim - maybe a point or two? Big deal.

If you don't use them for judging I'm sure the next guy will. It seems you may be going through a lot of expense and hassle for what is likely only a few points.

Patrick

[Kevin M.]

Re: Reading date codes correctly

I agree, you'll never find wheels as nice. I scored 97.4% with all my condition points and total deducts for plug wires and cap. If the rest of your car is correct I'd leave them on.

Kevin

[Charles N.]

Re: Knock Off wheels - NCRS judging

Thanks for all your comments. I am going to look for a correct 1965 dated original KO and use it for a spare. If anybody sees one please let me know.

Chuck Nixon