Repop verses Original

[Kevin M.]

I going to have my car judged and I have a question. If you can tell a repop door panel from original why do most Top Flight cars I've seen with repops receive no deduction? Why are the judges so hard on other components but let door panels slide, air cleaner wing nut comes to mind. I have repops in my car but I've been told my originals are just fine and I like to have as many original parts that I can in my car, especially now that I'm considering having my car judged. I'm sure I'll take a hit on condition but it doesn't seem right to give full credit for a repop. Just curious.

Kevin

[Mike M.]

They may not have been on the car when judged...

If any part is "an obvious Repop" it will most likely receive a deduction from experienced judges. Top Flight cars may not be perfect. The system allows for some loss of points and still attain a Top Flight.
H. a. N. D.

[Kevin M.]

Re: They may not have been on the car when judged.

I know of two Top Flight cars that only recieved a one point fit deduct with repop panels at a national. So an original pair get's a greater deduct than repops doesn't seem right, I guess I should leave the repops on, naw.

Kevin

[Brian M.]

Re: They may not have been on the car when judged.

My repro door panels received a -1 pt. 4/97, -2 pts. 4/04, no deduct 5/04 and -4
at the National 7/04. Hope this helps. I'd leave the repops on. JMHO

[Mike M.]

Re: They may not have been on the car when judged.

My 65 repo panels from Al Knoch had a no points deducted at the National 7/04. One of the cars next to me had orignal panels and he lost 4 points for the condition of his panels. Most orignal panels will show signs of age which will cost some points. Mike

[Brian M.]

Re: They may not have been on the car when judged.

My Repro door panels are also AK but probably 20+ years old as they have a stamp on the back with AK's address in Garden City MI. Notation was made on the National judging sheet, Hard and grain.

[Roy B.]

Re: Repop verses Original" Kevin"

Kevin that has all ways been my complaint . On the JM if it states "original" why not also state "Repro" There are so many repro parts on Corvettes that few judges or people know what an original part looks like any more. I've seen people loose points on a perfect original part because it didn't look like a repro part that most vetts had.
And years go by with more and more repro parts being used that future judges wont know the difference.So the bottom line is =why buy a $80.00 original wing nut?????? I've judged many Corvette with people getting mad because I said it's a repro and they say NO WAY it passed other judges.

[Dick W.]

Re: Repop verses Original" Kevin"

In the C-3's it is usually a wash on points. The panels seemed to deteriorate quicker than the earlier cars. You lose points on originality for repro's (some mfg's are better than others) or you take points on condition for the usual cracking of the arm rests and the top corner cracks. Some owners had rather take the condition points, but I think that most had rather take the originality points.

[Reba Whittington]

Re: They may not have been on the car when judged.

Are you sure they were Knoch's? There was a company in Michigan that made panels with an incorrect grain. The only giveaway I have found on Knoch's is the backing panel, and that is not always visable.

[Mike M.]

Re: They may not have been on the car when judged.

My panels were bought in the spring 2003. Mike

[Chuck S.]

Re: Repop verses Original

"If you can tell a repop door panel from original...

Probably the first thing that should be said is that a judge can't simply use the knowledge that no NOS door panels are left in existence in the universe, and therefore these brand-new condition door panels ARE reproduction. If he is to deduct for non-originality, he must be able to examine the door panels being judged and ennumerate the ways in which the judged door panels differ from the original door panels. If he can't find anything he knows to be different, the benefit of doubt goes to the owner.

Originality of parts is judged in areas of configuration (the manner in which components are shaped, molded, cast or machined), date (the extent to which the component date conforms to the logical sequence of manufacture and typically observed GM supply sourcing intervals, completeness (the extent to which the component is totally present), installation (the extent to which the component is installed correctly), finish (the extent to which the component surface finish gloss, texture, color, tint, and type conform to the judging standard.

The total number of originality points will be distributed more or less equally to each of these areas; non-applicable areas should receive full credit (Example: door panels can not be judged for date because they were originally ink stamped on the backside.) If the backing material of the door panel is visible enough to be identified as plastic rather than the paperboard originally used, that is a clear deviation from the original configuration...Remember that this is only one of five areas originality judged, and there are numerous other configuration attributes to consider.

Let's say door panels, release handles, hardware and trim have 20 originality and 20 condition parts (Totally made-up and probably much higher than actual). Then each of the five originality areas is worth about 4 points. If you consider ALL the ways a repro door panel can be different from an original (molded shape, hardware items, whisker wipers, vinyl covering, etc) how much is the backing material worth? Maybe -1? If you put down -2, you have judged pretty harshly in my opinion.

From an old handout on judging guidelines:

When assessing the extent of a Condition or Originality deviation, consider the proportional relationship between the area of component being judged and the specific source of the deviation. Small proportion equals small relative weight.

When determining point deductions, use a graduated scale depending on the extent of the deviation:

o Reasonably undetectable.......No deduction
o Easily detectable.............up to 33%
o Significant...................33% to 90%
o Totally missing or unlike.....90% to 100%

[Kevin M.]

Re: Repop verses Original

Wow those are all great responses, I can see the thoughts behind deductions more clearly now.

Kevin

[Chuck S.]

Now That We Have Told You The SECRETS...

There will be two Men In Black coming to your door to neuralize your memory and escort you to your new life!

[Roy B.]

Re: Repop verses Original" Chuck"

I know the judging scale used on parts (real or repro) what I'm trying to say with out pi**ing off the every one IS this. What is so wrong with having a column stating repro's and I don't care if it's %99.99 a correct part , just to let some one know it's a repro.
Keep the judging as it is,and use the points system we have .
(I would like to know and many other owners also would like to know)ON PAPER marked off in it's own column , what part on my Corvette is ORIGINAL or REPROD.
(I would think NEW owners and many people would like to know that)
It won't take away from any Corvette or any points , BUT would give ME the option of knowing a real part, in deciding weather I wont to spend $80.00 for an original Air cleaner wing nut.
Just telling some one why the wing nut is to thin can be forgotten later.I'm beginning to think the argument over this is using the word repro as if it's a swear word.

[Brian M.]

Re: They may not have been on the car when judged.

Yes. They have AK's stamp on the backside.