Jack Humphrey

[Roy B.]

"Poppycock" love that word ! you must be over 60? I know there are other judging options like the Sportsman field ( But that's a secured parking area). I"am going to have my 55 Corvette judged in 05 for the first time in 20 years because of the 50th . And I know that it won't get any flight award and believe me that's OK with me , I understand and accept it. When they deduct all the "18" factory options that I installed plus the Green bubble top it has ??? Even tho the rest is all original.
So you ask why? Well, people like seeing what was offered by G.M and I like showing people the options. Because it is the 50th year for the 55 I thought I would be interesting for people to see and learn what was offered, not many people show interest the Sportsman field , thinking only the judging field has original Corvettes.
Now don't take is wrong, I have NO argument with NCRS or discredit the Sportsman class or others or people that think different then me and what ever others may add ( hope I covered every one )
It will be the last time I enter the Corvette again like the SB 67 Corvette having the BB hood some 24 years ago I have,so calm down.

[Charlie P.]

Re: Options vs. Accessories

Roy- I think the distinction between OPTIONS and ACCESSORIES needs to be kept in mind. The items you refer to are for the most part, if not exclusively, dealer-installed or aftermarket "accessories". I would say that "options" are only installed at the factory, and accessories are only installed or added by the dealer or owner.

I happen to think all those accessory items you are into are very cool. You're right- they are very interesting and educational. They may not fit the bill for maximum NCRS scoring, but since we've (pretty much) seen all there is to see from the factory, accessories become a study in themselves.

[Dave F.]

Re: Jack Humphrey

The following goes to NCRS policy, but I can't keep this to myself any longer -when it comes to options versus accessories, and all the semantic arguements that come from that, who does the general public buy their Corvettes from - the factory or the dealer?? And where did those parts come from that the dealer installed? And what car were the parts made for that the dealer installed? Further, what does the car's documentation show that was on the car on the date it was delivered? Relatively speaking, I'm just a rookie here, and have no idea of the debate history on these questions. But if the car has documentation proving the dealer installed options were on the car at the time of delivery to it's original owner, should there be any point deduction on originality?? I'm somewhat certain that the answer is yes because of the factory issue, but it seems a little unfair to those who bought their new Corvette with dealer installed items, which may have not been requested by the original owner. Merry Christmas

[Roy B.]

Re: Options vs. Accessories

Charlie-Your right . that's a good explanation. But it's sad that even tho the G.M authorized after market items to be used on certain year Corvettes . it's not recognized by NCRS.
The factory offered a trailer hitch (option) for Corvettes from the factory but may have been later installed by the dealer. Then the factory invoice wont show it because the dealer did it because the buyer later added it. (still an option ? or accessory )because now the dealer calls it an accessory ??
knock off wheels is another one? Option or accessory?
To many things still need to be sorted out about our Corvettes.

[Roy B.]

Re: Dave

You take the words right out of my mouth . Sad isn't it?
Your NEW Corvette sale receipt from a dealer can be used against you

[Robert C.]

Re:NCRS judges the cars as they left the FACTORY! *NM*

[Mike M.]

Re:NCRS judges the cars as they left the FACTORY!

agree with you bob. when NCRS was formed in 1974, the founding fathers decided to judge the cars as they left the factory, not how the car left the dealership(other than routine dealership cleanup etc). the founding fathers had no desire to see the vettes loaded down with as many accessories as a subsequent owner wished to install. vette owners who wish to load their vettes with dealer available accessories have two options in NCRS: take the judging deduction or don't have the vette judged in NCRS. there are other clubs that do recognize owner/dealer installed accessories.VCCA for one will allow any part that was availble from the dealer. VCCA has their philosphy, NCRS, since '74, has had theirs. i for one am tired of this dealer installed debate that seems to surface every month or two.If members want to change the judging philosophy, run for office and change the rules thataway. my last post on this topic. merry christmas to all. mikie

[Robert C.]

Re:Running for office won't change the philosophy! *NM*

[Jack H.]

Mike & I...AGREE!!!!`

The club had to draw a line in the sand somewhere, so it opted to place that line at the point of factory construction (for right or for wrong). When cars are Flight Judged with dealer-only installed options (e.g. luggage racks), the judges and JG Books generally instruct a MODEST deduction. No big deal, if a few points are lost due to dealer-only options, what the heck!

Now, growing up in Detroit in the 50/60's, I played in several rock bands. Had a Go-Go dancer/singer who bought a '66 350/350 coupe new. She wanted side exhaust and the dealer agreed to add it. What's the 'right' way for her to restore/show her car, if she wanted to?

Well, the 'right' way for her to restore/show her car would be WITH the side exhaust the dealer installed for her (matches the bill of sale and WAS the way she drove that car out of the dealership).... But, she'd have to be counciled to expect a full deduction during Flight Judging, because that particular Corvette NEVER left St. Louis with N14, and, in her heart, she knows it.... So, live with a loss of judging points and ENJOY the car! But, don't 'bad mouth' NCRS because it has 'standards'....

As Mike said, if you don't like the way things are, then git off your arse, run for office, serve, and change things from the inside out! We BOTH have done that....

On brother Braatz and his NOT getting an award for having TOO MANY GM authorized after production options on his excellent car, that's FOOEY! Senor Braatz has been 'lured' out of retirement; will DRIVE his superb car to the meet, get a POTLOAD of milage drive credits for the effort, and can be expected to stand TALL in the awards ceremony line with his brethern who also drive & show their Corvettes!

This lowly NCRS member will be buying Brother Braatz ye olde brewski (maybe n-tuples) in Park City to ease his 'burden'.... (Y'all may watch, but pay your own tabs as a handful of us are mosyin' on down UNDER to the Land of Oz to help our Australian brothers get their judging game a-goin' this March, so free brew purchases will be a 'pinch' in the Mountains next summer).

[Joe R.]

Re: Mike & I...AGREE!!!!`

Jack,

If we show our cars the way they left St. Louis, I believe the hubcaps would not be installed.

I totally agree with you but the difference between a satisfied customer and a disatisfied customer is sometimes in the way he is treated.

Nearly every time an NCRS member raises hell publically like as in the Corvette Forum the disatisfied members problems are traced back to how they were treated by the judging team.

Does this mean that every judging team has to kiss the members a$^&*. No, but kissing them on the cheek every once in a while might help.

The smartest thing ever said about judging as a team was said at Bloomington. "Each team member should pick out something about the car being judged and compliment the owner."

Well, here I go off like a mad man making suggestions.

Have a Merry Christmas,

JR

[Roy B.]

Re: Mike & I...AGREE!!!!`

You all must think I'm a trouble maker expressing my thoughts about dealer and factory accessories.
I only ask questions to get a feeling how members think, after all I've been away from NCRS for years even tho I've kept my membership up #182. There have been many changes with different awards created , judging manuals changes and so on.
By now I felt dealer accessories would have been added giving flight judging a bit more interesting.
If we've seen a TOP flight 55, 61 F.I ,67 427 BB, 81BB and so on I've see the same Corvette over and over with a field of 50 Corvettes. "I" find my self being drawn only to a color that is unusual (rare) or the color I most like. A top flight any year Corvette well look just like the same year same combination Corvette of the same year. (but for color) I'm not trying to change NCRS's rules I'm just again expressing my thoughts. SORRY ABOUT THAT!

Did the line in the sand move a little having different awards including race cars??????????.

[Dave F.]

So, whatever happened to the GO-GO dancer? *NM*

[Jack H.]

Can't say! Dropped the guitar for college.... *NM*