Thoughts please, on the "pointless", hall effect, ignition conversion kits available from Lectric Limited, etc. Maybe this issue has been hammered into the ground, but, if so, I missed it. Again, your thoughts, please. Dennis
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Re: C1 - Hall effect ignition "upgrade"...
Dennis-----
Personally, I believe that this "Breakerless" conversion is the best one out there. Of all those on the market, this is the only one that I know of that uses the Hall effect principle, and I consider that the best system available. If I do end up converting to an electronic module for my distributor, I will be using the "Breakerless" system. Also, my affinity for it has nothing to do with the fact that this system is "one wire" to make for a stock-appearing external configuration. That's a nice "side benefit" but it's not enough of a benefit to sacrifice functionality if I believed that a 2 wire system was functionally superior.
The "Breakerless" system in conjunction with a STOCK coil will produce just about all of the ignition benefits of a 64-71 TI system without all the "hassles" and expense.
One really nice thing about these systems is that they are easily converted back to points. As we all know, there is a "reliability factor" associated with most electronic systems. Usually, they work well, but when they fail, it's usually sudden and COMPLETE. By carrying a set of points, condensor and a screwdriver, one can convert back to points ignition very quickly and just about anywhere. Carrying these parts does not represent much of problem space-wise, either. Plus, it's a lot cheaper than buying and carrying a spare breakerless module, which you'll probably never need, anyway.In Appreciation of John Hinckley -
Re: C1 - Hall effect ignition "upgrade"...
Dennis-----
Personally, I believe that this "Breakerless" conversion is the best one out there. Of all those on the market, this is the only one that I know of that uses the Hall effect principle, and I consider that the best system available. If I do end up converting to an electronic module for my distributor, I will be using the "Breakerless" system. Also, my affinity for it has nothing to do with the fact that this system is "one wire" to make for a stock-appearing external configuration. That's a nice "side benefit" but it's not enough of a benefit to sacrifice functionality if I believed that a 2 wire system was functionally superior.
The "Breakerless" system in conjunction with a STOCK coil will produce just about all of the ignition benefits of a 64-71 TI system without all the "hassles" and expense.
One really nice thing about these systems is that they are easily converted back to points. As we all know, there is a "reliability factor" associated with most electronic systems. Usually, they work well, but when they fail, it's usually sudden and COMPLETE. By carrying a set of points, condensor and a screwdriver, one can convert back to points ignition very quickly and just about anywhere. Carrying these parts does not represent much of problem space-wise, either. Plus, it's a lot cheaper than buying and carrying a spare breakerless module, which you'll probably never need, anyway.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: C1 - Hall effect ignition "upgrade"...
Dennis - with an electronic conversion you miss the "romance and ritual" of the Saturday morning tuneup - checking and adjusting the dwell and timing before the cruise and potential race that night!
My understanding is that you drive your cars everywhere and a lot, but even daily driven, a set of points will typically go 30K miles (less on a SHP/FI engine).
One of the beauties of these old crocks is that their simple electrical systems can be diagnosed with a cheap multimeter and most components replaced or rebuilt with a few simple hand tools, and they usually give you some warning when something begins to go south.
If you install an electronic ignition you end up with a "black box" that can choke and puke without warning, leaving you stranded.
Oh well, if you do convert, keep a set of points and whatever tools you need in the trunk to swap them back in so you can get home.
After suffering three failures of the HEI in my Cosworth Vega I bought a spare 649 distributor (even has the "correct" date code) and keep it along with a 9/16" wrench in the spare tire well, so if it ever takes another dive I can swap it out and be back on the road in a few minutes.
Now, I can't wait to hear what Mike has to say, assuming he is reading the DB and not still bailing water after the storms. The way things are going with these conversions the three of us may be the last living humans who know how to install and adjust ignition points.
DukeComment
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Re: C1 - Hall effect ignition "upgrade"...
Dennis - with an electronic conversion you miss the "romance and ritual" of the Saturday morning tuneup - checking and adjusting the dwell and timing before the cruise and potential race that night!
My understanding is that you drive your cars everywhere and a lot, but even daily driven, a set of points will typically go 30K miles (less on a SHP/FI engine).
One of the beauties of these old crocks is that their simple electrical systems can be diagnosed with a cheap multimeter and most components replaced or rebuilt with a few simple hand tools, and they usually give you some warning when something begins to go south.
If you install an electronic ignition you end up with a "black box" that can choke and puke without warning, leaving you stranded.
Oh well, if you do convert, keep a set of points and whatever tools you need in the trunk to swap them back in so you can get home.
After suffering three failures of the HEI in my Cosworth Vega I bought a spare 649 distributor (even has the "correct" date code) and keep it along with a 9/16" wrench in the spare tire well, so if it ever takes another dive I can swap it out and be back on the road in a few minutes.
Now, I can't wait to hear what Mike has to say, assuming he is reading the DB and not still bailing water after the storms. The way things are going with these conversions the three of us may be the last living humans who know how to install and adjust ignition points.
DukeComment
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Re: C1 - Hall effect ignition "upgrade"...
Dipstick. I have used electronic ignition conversion kits(Mallory, Accel, you name it brands) since the '70's. Other that an occasional failure with the very early ones, I have found that they are very reliable. I think that the Hall Effect would be a great step forward. Unlike Duke, I do not miss the Saturday morning tuneup. I am one that likes the "set and forget" reliability of electronic components. For a driver I like to add the MSD 6AL ignition box. Plugs will last forever. They will fire with gas dripping from them (litterally! Blew a gasket in a Quadrajuck and flooded engine, smoked like a diesel but kept running)Dick WhittingtonComment
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Re: C1 - Hall effect ignition "upgrade"...
Dipstick. I have used electronic ignition conversion kits(Mallory, Accel, you name it brands) since the '70's. Other that an occasional failure with the very early ones, I have found that they are very reliable. I think that the Hall Effect would be a great step forward. Unlike Duke, I do not miss the Saturday morning tuneup. I am one that likes the "set and forget" reliability of electronic components. For a driver I like to add the MSD 6AL ignition box. Plugs will last forever. They will fire with gas dripping from them (litterally! Blew a gasket in a Quadrajuck and flooded engine, smoked like a diesel but kept running)Dick WhittingtonComment
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Re: C1 - Hall effect ignition "upgrade"...
Dipstick: go for the electronic system. that way ya won't have to learn how to set points. when the pointless system takes a crap, your AARP/AAA card will provide free towing of the Nomad. see ya in windsor. mikeComment
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Re: C1 - Hall effect ignition "upgrade"...
Dipstick: go for the electronic system. that way ya won't have to learn how to set points. when the pointless system takes a crap, your AARP/AAA card will provide free towing of the Nomad. see ya in windsor. mikeComment
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Re: C1 - Hall effect ignition "upgrade"...
Hi Dennis -
I'd been thinking about going this route with my '63 300HP for a while. But with the "un-original" aspect, the electronic uncertainly, and the price, when my engine developed the "tune me up!" stumble, I bought all new Delco stuff. But what I received was a bunch of foreign crap. The new Delco caps aren't even black anymore. Depressed, I decided it was time and I ordered the Breakerless SE from LL. Incidentally, they must be pretty popular. I waited nearly a month while it was on backorder.
It took me an hour to thoroughly study it and carefully install it (didn't want any hassles here). I re-used the old cap and rotor because, hey, I wanted it black! Everything fits under the original rotor; there is NOTHING visible outside. The coil wire is the original wire. To my absolute delight, she fired right up, no more stumble, always starts instantly, and it's been running like a newly tuned up car ever since (4-5 weeks now). This car is driven daily weather permitting.
I highly recommend you go to LL's web site and read the EXTENSIVE background on their SE (there's a LOT of good general ignition info to read about also). I also recommend you study the install steps thoroughly. One step is a bit of a challenge until you get the knack.
But I gotta tell ya, this was one GOOD MOVE from my perspective. Nothing but good things to say about it.
Good luck!
PeteComment
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Re: C1 - Hall effect ignition "upgrade"...
GP - Thanks very much. If you're running for some (any) office this year, you may count on my vote. DennisComment
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Re: What is Hall Effect? Thanks.
Joe, what is the Hall Effect? How, does it improve the spark over mechanical ignition? TerryComment
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Forget about the intricacies....
of understanding Hall Effect. It doesn't make a lot of difference anyway. It deals with the orthagonal relationship between electrical current flow, electrical voltage and magnetic flux. Basically, you can change one of these variables and observe corresponding changes in the others.
The bottom line is this: in a solid state ignition system you'd like a trigger mechanism that doesn't rely on 'things touching' each other because that's a wear area. In a conventional Kettering ignition system, the cam lobes on the distributor shaft rub against the points causing them to open/close.
A solid state system wants a triggering means that doesn't involve 'touching' and it's done by several competing methods: (1) magnetic inductance, (2) photo optics, and the Breakerless SE system designed and manufactured by M&H Fabricators that's OEM purchased and brand labeled by Lectric Limited for resale happens to use a Hall Effect trigger. These different methods of triggering are typically just one way to get around the other guy's patent position.
But, Hall Effect and magnetic inductance have one leg up over an optical trigger and that's the fact they do NOT deteriorate in the presense of airborn dirt/grease which can coat the optical pickup. The advantage of these different competing systems lies in their lack of wear (eliminate point replacement and tune-up tweaks) and their general ability to respond faster than mechanical systems (e.g. points) keeping the spark silhouette rather constant, independent of engine RPM.
The new design of the Breakerless SE has a number of built-in 'features' that make it stand out from older competing designs from Pertronix and Mallory and these include:
(1) Single wire installation. The other guys need a stable source of constant '12V' feed to power the electronics in their module and this means 'snaking' an extra wire into the distributor.
(2) The single wire operation allows you to change from points to solid-state without pulling the distributor and the change back is just as fast/easy.
(3) It's got automatic over-voltage/over-current protection built in which means you can jump start the car in confidence and not worry about a momentary reverse polarity connection of the jumper wires 'smoking' your SS ignition system.
(4) It's got an automatic 'sleep' mode designed in. When you first feed it power, it does a self check and goes to 'sleep'. This stops current from flowing through the coil primary and heating the coil. When the starter is engaged, the 3rd consecutive tach pulse wakes the ignition system up and it fires. Should you kill the engine but leave the ignition ON, it senses a need to re-enter 'sleep' mode when it's missed something like 12 consecutive tach pulses. So, it puts less electro-thermal stress on your classic car's coil by dynamically squelching primary current when the engine's not running.
(5) Since there's an air gap between triggering system components, it's quite insensitive to bearing wear and shaft wobble in your existing distributor, but so are the competing SS designs....
(6) Last, a natural consequence of high RPM operation is a modest loss of dwell because the triggering mechanism works faster and time translates to dwell. The Breakerless SE dynamically stretches dwell in lock-step to absolute RPM to compensate.
If you want to know more, go to the manufacturer's web site and listen to their ad [www.breakerless.com]Comment
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Thanks for taking the time. Terry *NM*
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