Engine Fire - Damaged Firewall

[Tom B.]

Joe,

Thanks for keeping up with the "flow" (Ha!) of info. I'm certainly not complaining when I say this, and am still more than interested to see this come to an "engineering" conclusion, but this whole thing started when I began to question the suggestion I got for reducing my "supposedly" high volume of flow at high engine RPM (427 with 4:11 rear) at highway speed (65 mph+) for my resulting "higher" operating temp (215+). Since the discussion reached a level far above my expertise, I decided to "gracefully" sit down and listen (and exit with my novice attempt at "engineering humor" about perpetual motion.)

My own dilema now is that my "position" on the matter has become more "centered" to "definately undecided". I admit that Jerry's early information helped me to better understand the "fast" flow position. The "cooler example" I injected even helped me to better understand that, since I could imagine passing "through" the cooler more times. But that hasn't convinced me.

Where I continue to have difficulty is with the "efficiency" of the radiator (and the entire component set up of the automotive cooling system). Granted, with the design of the radiator, its material (aluminum), the surface area, narrowed tubing for coolant flow, etc., I don't have enough information to conclude that the radiator is efficient ENOUGH to "transfer" heat away with a higher rate of flow of the coolant. To me it would be more of a "flip-flop" exchange of volume, more on a level of "flash cooling" and "flash heating".

My objective is to not continually muddy the water. I am beginning to reach a point of "applied" principles, purchase the $7.00 restrictor kit, and test run my engine without the thermostat as well. In chance, this may become resolved on our NDB "blackboard" and can save me the time and trouble. That is if my slow-to-understand-mind can eventually absorb all the information. Though silent, I have been continuing to follow each post. Thanks again, Joe. Tom #24014.

[Steve Moore - NCRS #35476]

Engine Fire - Damaged Firewall

I have a Classic White 1979 L-82 with 4-speed that has about 85K miles that I have owned from its birth. On 3 July, 1990, I experienced an engine fire that severely damaged the engine compartment, the firewall and the hood. I bought the salvage from the insurance company and I have been dreaming of a body-off restoration ever since.

However, I have no skills with fiberglass and the firewall either needs replacement or substantial rebuilding. I joined NCRS to find advice on how best to proceed...

Specifically, I need advice on whether to repair or replace the firewall. There are several areas that got hot enough to "melt" away the resin leaving "spongy" fibers with no strength to mount firewall related accessories. From my limited perspective, the choices are to repair/replace the damaged areas with (extensively contoured) patches or to buy a wreck and somehow splice an intact firewall into the existing fiberglass assembly.

If someone has advice, and especially some references to accomplish the best approach, I would appreciate the help! Pictures can be seen at the URL below:

http://hometown.aol.com/castoriva/79Corvette.html

[Patrick H.]

My Condolences

Steve,

I see all that damage, understand your attachment to the vehicle, and can only shake my head.

Anyway, one important thing to know: is the title now a "salvage" title, or not? It will have long-term value implications, if nothing else. You could get "upside down" on money VERY quickly.

I think of:

a) rebody. Look for another 79 Corvette with the same interior/exterior combination, with a bad frame, and swap bodies. If your interior is good, you can find cheap cars with bad or blown-up motors for what an entire body would cost. Besides, you get lots of spare parts then, too.

b) find a 79 hit in the rear, and then make a Corvette body man into your new best buddy. Bodywork isn't my thing anyway, but I couldn't imagine the time or effort to learn how to repair your car and do it right. I would imagine that you'll have to consider cutting it through the floorboards and splicing two cars together. By the time you replace inner fenders, firewall, etc. you might as well replace it all from that point forward.

c) go custom, and buy a Grand Sport kit whereby the entire body is replaced. You'll have the coolest Corvette in the neighborhood, and the value will be determined more by the quality of the work than the correctness of the body/numbers/etc.

d) Use it for your grandkids to sit in someday and say "Varooom" as they sit in the driver's seat.

Good luck,

Patrick

[Steve Moore - NCRS #35476]

Re: My Condolences

Thanks for your sorrow! Thanks also for the suggestions. I like the idea of buying a crashed rear-end body that has had the motor pulled and therefore looks to be semi-worthless. I also like the idea of having the extra parts. Anybody know of a suitable wreck close to Northern Utah???

Regarding the "salvage title", I applied for one from the State of Utah, but never received it. Help me understand what the $ implications could be. I guess I never thought of it costing me later...

[Todd Hammond]

Re: Engine Fire - Damaged Firewall

I've got a 78 that I've only had a few months and I'm already attached to it, can't imagine if I was in your shoes. Gotta go with Patrick on this, I'd seriously consider a re-body. No, the numbers won't match, but if you have access to a lift and a friendly Corvette resto shop for help/advice/facilities I think it would be a lot less painless than trying replace your firewall. And like Patrick ways, you'll have lots of spare parts.

Good Luck!

TH #35272

[Juliet P.]

I've been looking at Greg's car WAAAY too much...

...so Steve, yours isnt' all that scarey. You can get the firewall components from Zip. The top firewall piece for $175 (the part where all the wiper stuff mounts) where the majority of your damage appears to be. A new hood surround is about $800. The inner plenum panels (where the AC blower motor mounts) about $60 per side. Those make up most of the convoluted and shaped portions of the firewall. The rest of it down low seems to have been protected. You might also need new inner fenderwells, those are about $230 a piece. So you're talking a $few grand in parts and supplies. You can also check with some salvage yards to see if any have any suitable donor firewalls. I have no idea what those cost though.

Then there's the issue of labor. Fiberglass doesn't require a rocket science degree. If you're willing to tackle it you could keep it relatively cost effective. You will be approaching the point where the vehicle worth and the investment might start changing sign. But I totally understand your sentimental attachment to this car.

I think with some custom fabrication you could work up something. You can take the old damaged one, and mount that on some plywood, wax it somehow and use that with the prefabbed smaller pieces to make up a new firewall. Take a look at Greg's hot rod '65 project below. It has a whole lot of the parts you'll need to replace already missing. Sure its not a shark, but the scale of the project is about the same. Good Luck! ~Juliet

http://www.annapolis.net/members/julepage/65/65Corvette.htm

[Patrick H.]

Re: My Condolences

Steve,

I know that often a car with a salvage title is worth significantly less than an identical car with a "clean" title - possibly half as much. I guess I'd hate to see you spend $20k (and don't think you couldn't) on the most common (popular? plentiful?) year of the Corvette, and be sorry when you get only $10k for the completed car. Of course, if you go into it like that, knowing what the end result may be but wanting to keep "your" car, then have fun. Just don't show your wife the tally of the repair costs. Remember, there IS a reason the insurance company too decided it was best left for scrap.

Maybe find an identical 79, and use YOURS for spare parts instead?

Anyway, just make sure you go into this with your eyes REALY wide open.

Patrick Hulst

[Patrick H.]

But not looking at the price of cheap 79's

Juliet,

I almost bought a 79 two years ago sans engine for $3k. Now, there are only, what, 6 or 8 bolts holding the body onto the frame? One weekend day, and the bodies are swapped, with NO fiberglass mess involved. For the $3k to $5k price of a car with a good body and questionable running gear (remember, we're talking a 79 here, not a 63-67), I wouldn't even THINK of cutting and pasting if all those pieces had to be redone unless my best friend was a body man and he gave me his time for free. Now, while that may be true in my case, it doesn't appear so here, so a swap-and-drop sure would be easy.

Of course, I'd clean up the frame, suspension, etc., detail the engine and paint the body while it was off, but that's just me. If he repaired the front end, he'd still have to repaint anyway, so I don't think there'd be a lot extra involved.

We actually have a club member locally whose car was burned from the firewall forward in a similar manner. They're going to rebody when they can find one (69 convertibles aren't as plentiful).

Patrick

[Juliet P.]

Insurance...

... on salvage title cars can also be a stickler. Some states won't allow you to register salvage title cars unless you first go through some major wickets to turn it into a non-salvage titled car. And there are some states which don't allow a salvage title to ever be cleaned. Check with your local DMV about the requirements to license and drive a car with a salvage title. It might be a good thing you didn't get one! ~Juliet

[Mike M.]

Re: Engine Fire - Damaged Firewall

Good job on the pics. With the two main consderations raised, the title and the year, I'm guessing you need to go low budget on this. If your front fiberglas from the wheels forward is in original and good condition, I would not consider a hood surround, not necessay, too much money, too much work, tough even for a pro.

If I'm seeing the pictures accurately, (not through rose colored glasses), It looks like the damage only runs down about 8-10 inches, or so, below the hood line. If so, your dilemma may not be as hopeless as I had imagined. It appears that the drip edges and crack are repairable and the inner fender is just scorched. If it is worse than that even with some exposed fibers, but still the proper contour, it would also be repairable (firewall too).

If burned through, I would piece-in the firewall with a used piece. You have a couple of things going for you. You can select the placement where it would be easy to join the piece so the work is covered on the inside by insulation and on the engine side by the heater and the blackout. With the proper instruction, practice and patience the fiberglas work should be very doable for you.

Maybe some of the pros can contribute more suggestions.