Paint for 1971

[Ralph A.]

Getting ready to turn over my 71 to the body shop. He asked what brand and type of paint matches the original that can currently be applied. Color is Bridgehampton Blue. I would like to be close to originl but have good resistance to the weather. The car will be driven. Can you provide points deduction if we use base clear.
Thanks
Ralph

[Patrick H.]

Re: Paint for 1971

Ralph,

Not at home to give you exact numbers for the points deduction, but I do know that a friend used DuPont BC/CC on his 70, and the mix exactly matched my 71 and another original paint 71, all 3 Bridgehampton Blue.

Visit your local DuPont dealer for the correct code and mix; if he doesn't have it I may be able to find it through my friend.

Patrick

[Ralph A.]

Re: Paint for 1971

Thanks Patrick.
I went to the 71 registry and retrived the Lucite and R-M numbers. Base Clear, is the paint obvious to the judges and is the look worth the points deduction. I have heard of a dual stage urathane. Anyone have any knowledge of its look and durability, and judging effects.
Thanks
RA

[Jack H.]

Re: Paint for 1971

Original paint can be found by mfgr & blend code using the PPG website (www.autocolorlibrary.com). As far as deviating from factory original paint technology, the rule is simple.

If the exterior paint is OBVIOUSLY different from a factory original finish (this car was NOT shot base coat/clear coat), then you lose all originality and condition points associated with the exterior paint. If you keep the color 'close' to the factory original, you'll get full credit for the 'color' aspect of the exterior finish.

In Flight Judging there are 4500 possible points for the car. No deductions would yield a score of 4500 and 4500/4500 = 100%. Current Flight Score sheets for 68-72 Corvette allocate 85 points for Body Color, 45 points for Body Paint Originality, and 40 points for Body Paint Condition. If your painter creates an OBVIOUS base coat/clear coat finish, deduct the 85 points associated with Body Paint. That amounts to a 85/4500= 1.88% scoring loss.

Now, if your painter is clever and can figure how to shoot a non-lacquer finish or do BC/CC that's NOT obvious, you'll recoup these points. One aspect of lacquer that's well known is it will 'lift' when you do an ordinary wax job using conventional, abrasive wax. If your final paint job won't 'pull color' onto a wax impregnated cloth, best believe the finish is an OBVIOUS departure from a factory original paint job.

But, paint and body work is an EXPENSIVE proposition. The car is your asset and NOBODY should tell you what to do with it, what's 'right', Etc. Just be prepared for the resulting scoring loss (above) if your painter and you decide to do a concours d'elegance paint job then want to have the car judged in a factory concours setting. The two settings are VERY different....

One tries to make the car look as good as it can be while retaining as much originality as possible. The other seeks to preserve factory originality at the expense of suboptimizing the 'beauty' of the finished product (they didn't come out of the plant with a 2-step base coat/clear coat paint job and they DID shoot them with acrylic lacquer).

[Chuck S.]

Re: Paint for 1971

Ralph, by "dual-stage" urethane, you probably mean "two-stage" urethane. That means that the base coat is first painted (stage one) and then, clear MUST be sprayed (stage two) over the color to give it gloss and environmental protection.

By contrast, "single-stage" urethane means that the color does not require clear. Clear can be applied to some single stage products, if desired, for additional gloss and protection. However, additional gloss is not something the typical NCRS judge wants to see. To my knowledge, all urethanes are catalyzed...the "two-stage" has nothing to do with it being catalyzed or not.

If you were an NCRS member in 2003, there was an article in The Corvette Restorer, Spring 2003, Vol. 29, Number 4, entitled "Restoration Paint" by Tom Ames. Tom gives some tips on appllication of single stage or two stage urethane paints to make them "appear" as the original acrylic lacquer, WHICH IS THE STANDARD to which the paint should be judged. If it were me, I would supply my painter with a copy of the article, and let him mull it over for a day or so. Maybe he'll like the challenge and throw his entire capability into making your paint look like acrylic lacquer.

You'll may see some additional expense, but probably not much percentage-wise on the amount you'll be paying for a first class paint job....The door jambs have to be painted in separate step using a flattening agent.

[Bill W.]

Re: Paint for 1971

Chevorlet NEVER painted Corvettes with flat jambs & gutters. A judge would have to be stupid to think that looks like lacquer. Jambs and gutters are unbuffed lacquer the same as all the lower parts of the car. Urethane looks like urethane .lacquer looks like lacquer. Put on what ever makes you happy. If you like the looks & durability of base coat /clear coat use it. But dont insult a paint judge by telling them it looks like lacquer. Would you rather have a car that appears correct or is correct ?....Bill

[Chuck S.]

Re: Paint for 1971

Bill, I never said "dead flat". The implication was to flatten the jamb/gutter paint as necessary to "appear" as unbuffed lacquer. I am merely passing on what another knowledgeable painter like yourself has said is possible, and what has been presented at National Conventions for about five years now.

As for "correctness", you can't paint a Corvette today that is "CORRECT" (Is that an angelic choir singing?). The same acrylic lacquer used in the 60s and 70s doesn't exist anymore according to DuPont representatives. You can tell yourself that today's acrylic lacquer is the only "correct" paint for Corvettes (as long it lasts), or you can attempt to duplicate the look as near as possible with a product that doesn't have to be kept garaged for fear of rain.

IF I use acrylic urethane on my car, I will attempt to make the jambs and gutters appear as unbuffed lacquer just as they were originally. I will do this even if I forego the judging process entirely. I will do this not because I want to insult any judges' intelligence, but because I want it to look as original as I can make it while maintaining durability. If it can't be done successfully in my opinion, then I will not submit a joke for judging...But, then I won't have to worry about birds pooping on it either.

Please understand that you have been a great help to me personally, Bill, and you have my greatest respect as a person that knows his business. You may be right, but I have to say that for me, right now, the weight of the evidence weighs in favor of modern alternatives. Maybe if you gave us some argument besides "Lacquer is the only 'correct' paint for Corvettes"....That one has holes in it.

[Charlie P.]

Re: Paint for 1971

If you are concerned about the points deductions, I would go for laquer. I know you are going to drive the car, but if this is a car to be judged to NCRS standards, how much "weatherability" do you really need? I am guessing it won't be kept in the driveway, and you won't be commuting to work in it. I think the lesser of two evils is to suffer a few stone chips (and get driving miles credit when judged) and have the correct paint.

I am no paint expert, and I understand laquer can be a hassle to get done, but I don't see where restored Corvettes need the advanced performance of the urethanes. The paint will never suffer the abuse of high-use vehicles for which it is intended. And since the inherent finish properties are typically discernible from factory original, I don't see it as the first choice in most cases.

[mac peppers]

Re: Paint for 1971

i painted my 68 with lacquer about 12 years ago, it has lived the normal sheltered corvette life and it still looks great. i understand dupont was the last manufacture to make lacquer and they have recently stoped but there is still some remaining in the stores but it will not last long. i understand that it is being bought up like r-12 refrigerant was a few years ago.

[Ralph A.]

Re: Paint for 1971

OK, I am settled on laquer. Color is not common (Bridgehampton Blue) so I want to preserve its originality. This is my first car I am trying to put back to original equipment.

Now, my painter has asked for brand and type recommendations. The web site Joe provided shows multiple types so can someone give me + and -.

Thanks for all the input so far.
Ralph

[Patrick H.]

Re: Paint for 1971

I'd love to know of someone's recommendations for Bridgehampton Blue in lacquer.

My guess is that DuPont is currently the only source, but there "may" be some available through Sherwin-Williams automotive.

Patrick