Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels? NM

**Loren L.** · April 2, 2004, 06:09 PM

That phrasing is akin to "How long has it

been since you quit beating your wife?". I don't have "Factual Proof" that Grady Davis NEVER got a set of KO's or that Styling cars NEVER had them, but I do have proof that my car was ORDERED with them in early October and when it had not been delivered by February 15, the good Lt was told it had not been built because of the wheels order - dropped the wheels and the car was built in March.

**Robert Jorjorian** · April 2, 2004, 06:28 PM

Re: That phrasing is akin to "How long has it

Thanks for responding Loren.I have no reason to doubt your example BUT who has FACTS that 1963 Corvettes were NOT built with KO wheels?

**Duke W.** · April 2, 2004, 06:40 PM

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

That's like asking for "factual proof" that Jimmy Hoffa is dead!

Duke

**William C.** · April 2, 2004, 07:09 PM

Who was it said"you can't prove a negative" *NM*

**Michael H.** · April 2, 2004, 07:15 PM

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

Robert,

It's my understanding that the NCRS judging manual indicates that no points would be awarded for wheels if a 63 has KO wheels. Is this correct? Do you know what they base this decision on? Is it just an assumption? Thanks,

Michael

**Robert Jorjorian** · April 2, 2004, 07:19 PM

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

Thanks for responding Duke but even though I have zero interest in Jimmy Hoffa both cases need FACTS to seperate the truth from fiction. I have facts on KO wheels but I have never heard or seen FACTS that Corvettes in 63 ALL had steel wheels.
I beleive NCRS is based on facts also, so where are facts to support the stance that 63 Corvettes were only built with steel wheels?

**Ray C.** · April 2, 2004, 07:24 PM

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

Hi! Robert

I have just purchased a 63 and have been reading Noland Adams Vol. 2. Section: 1963. There are three pages: P156, P157 and P158 that reference your question. I believe much of Nolan's information came from GM records. If you do not have a copy, please email me and I will try to paraphrase it for you.

Ray #36314

**Doug C.** · April 2, 2004, 07:32 PM

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

Or, To put the onus on those that think they did, where's the definitive proof they were built with KO's? I'd say if you can't prove they were - then they were not.

**Robert Jorjorian** · April 2, 2004, 07:32 PM

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

Thanks for responding Michael.
As I understand it there will be a full deduction if you show with KO wheels on a 63. My point of asking the question is to find out what information NCRS uses to base their position of no KO wheels on!

**William C.** · April 2, 2004, 07:41 PM

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

I believe you have essentially stated the NCRS judging position on this issue. there is substantial Chevrolet documentation regarding the wheels being "on hold" at at least some point in the year, and substantial anecdotal information from original owners, some of which still retain the cars, that the cars were not built until the wheels were cancelled. Did a set get out on Chevrolet on say a company car that was sold, maybe, but the owner of that car would have to provide the documrntation as part of the restoration. The best candidate would likely have been the Knudsen "Wife" coupe with the gold brocade seat material and A/C That made it to a used car lot on Woodward about 36 or 37 yeaqrs ago, but I have not seen that car in any form since that time although there was a reference to it surfacing some years ago. The bottom line is the preponderence of evidence says they were not generally available, making the documentation of a set appearing on a car the burden of the (then current) owner.

**Michael H.** · April 2, 2004, 07:42 PM

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

If that's the case, I would have to disagree as there's too much information that suggests otherwise. I know there was a problem, or several problems during the 63 run but to say that no 63 left with KO's would not be accurate.

**Robert Jorjorian** · April 2, 2004, 07:43 PM

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

Thanks Ray I have the book also but is that the information NCRS uses to base their "NO KO WHEEL " policy on?

**Michael H.** · April 2, 2004, 08:01 PM

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

Hi Bill,

I agree that there were several stop orders from engineering on KO wheels issued during the 63 run but there were also several weeks of production that a release was issued and production was again allowed to proceed. It was well documented in GM bulletins and stop orders to the plant.

If a car shows up at an NCRS show with valid documentation that the car actually was assembled and left the plant with KO wheels, it would be accepted by NCRS? If that's the case, wouldn't that be proof that indeed 63 Corvettes were produced with these wheels? I agree that there couldn't have been many but the possibility difinitely exists. I don't have any 63's that have KO's so I'm not trying to sway the issue for personal reasons, I'm just trying to make a point. Thanks,

Michael

**William C.** · April 2, 2004, 08:11 PM

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

I don't know what point there is to be made, As I understand the judging process, if a car was presented with documentation of the wheels as being St-Louis built it would be judged as such. The absence of such documentation in the face of numerous discussions such as this one is one of the significant drivers toward the "no without documentation" statement. The issue is always open to prove they exist, but no one has yet been able to deliver that documentation. We will set aside the issue of star drive and two bar for the moment, becaust the real issue is none (knockoffs) have ever been documented as having been delivered on a St. Louis built car. ( As opposed to a CEC built car)

Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels? NM