NCRS Founders Award - NCRS Discussion Boards

NCRS Founders Award

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  • James W.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • December 1, 1990
    • 2652

    NCRS Founders Award

    Hello,

    I am plannig on going for the Founders Award in the next few years. I need some information from car owners that have attained this award. I see from the description of the award, that you must score a 96% on an operations check at a regional and a national NCRS event. Does this mean that out of a total of 750 points possible, you can have a total of 30 points deducted before failing? How hard do the judges when scoring a car? Is partial credit given in certain areas? Everything on my car works per the 30 catagories in my 63/64 judging manual. There is some faint transmission main shaft bearing noise when the car is idling in neutral, but not anything that I would consider pulling the transmission to have replaced.

    I'd like to hear from some C2 owners and get their stories on how their cars were judged, any problems encountered during driving to the regional and national event (what worked when you left home but didn't work when you arrived at the event), what NCRS flight catagory your car attained to qualify for the Founders Award and what if any differences there were between the judging at the regoinal operations check and the national event.

    My car is a 1964 convertible that I restored in 1982. It was judged at the 1984 NCRS Copper Mountain National meet and scored a 93.1% and received a second flight award. I correct most of the point deductions but have never had the car rejudged. I've just driven it sparingly since then. I feel the car should still score second flight based on it's condition and judging manual changes since 1984.

    Any comments would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to know what kind of experiences other members have had. Out of all the NCRS menber, there doesn't seem to be too many that have attained this award. Is it because it's hard or is it that people don't want to drive their cars that far?

    P.S. Does anyone know where the 2005 and 2006 NCRS National meets are planning to be held?

    Best Regards,

    James West
    Omaha, NE.
    1964 Corvette convertible #9258
    NCRS member #18379
  • John H.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • December 1, 1997
    • 16513

    #2
    Re: NCRS Founders Award

    James -

    2005 National is in Park City, Utah, and the 2006 National is in Kenner, Louisiana (and don't miss the 2004 National in Windsor, Ontario!).

    Comment

    • William C.
      NCRS Past President
      • May 31, 1975
      • 6037

      #3
      Re: NCRS Founders Award

      I foundered my '62 Fuel car, basicaly a second flight carwith good ops and had a ball on the road tour. By all meand, the founders ops chack is not worse (more severe) than the flight judging ops and may be a little more casual about non-safety related items. As ops categories from time to time cover multiple functions, partial credit is available, but one of the fun things about a "driver" is that the OPS is generally taken care of in normal driving maintenence for driving.
      Bill Clupper #618

      Comment

      • Dick C.
        Past NCRS President
        • November 1, 1995
        • 452

        #4
        Re: NCRS Founders Award

        James,
        All the items covered under the ops section must work as intended. Radios must work but does not have to be original, clock must work and it can be a quartz, so on and so on.. Original equipment not necessary, only has to function as intended. My car is a 67 coupe, top flighted in Quebec/02. Did regional ops at Seven Springs/03, national ops at Hershey/03. Received "Founders Award" at that time.
        What can go wrong ? lights, radio, wipers and washers, door locks, cig lighter, head lights, and others small things you won't think of. Take the ops page and go down the list one item at a time and check them on the day before you leave. Do it again when you arrive at the event location. Have someone go over ALL the list and do actual operation of each item. What to bring with you when you go? Fuses, bulbs, any spare parts that can be used to replace or used to repair an item on the list. Judges who do national events also do regional events. Good Luck, Dick
        Dick Capello
        New England Chapter/Mid Atlantic Chapter
        Past NCRS President
        Past Region 1 Director

        Comment

        • Dennis C.
          NCRS Past Judging Chairman
          • January 1, 1984
          • 2409

          #5
          Re: NCRS Founders Award

          James - To my knowledge, not one car/owner has yet to fail the Founder's Operation's Check. That's not to say it's easy - that's to say, you probably don't want to go down in history as being the first... Dennis

          Comment

          • James W.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • December 1, 1990
            • 2652

            #6
            Re: NCRS Founders Award

            Dennis,

            I guess my concern is with the wording in the operations section of the judging manual under section 20 listing unusual noise and fan clutch. I have some slight transmission bearing noise when the car is idling in neutral, but nothing that I believe needs to be rebuilt. I have one wing vent window regulator that has some excessive play in it. I plan to rebuild over the winter. Other than that, everything else checks out fine when going through the operations check list. Do I pull the transmission and replace the bearings or is it okay as is?

            Thanks,

            James West

            Comment

            • Reba Whittington

              #7
              Re: NCRS Founders Award

              James, you must score 96% only on the operations section; the other sections are not judged for Founders. The check is done by the national team leader for that year or his designee. Like Dennis, I don't know of anyone who has failed the test. (Many have done some worrying.) All team leaders I have talked with do not hold the car to the standard of a PV. Functions do not have to be 100% of factory settings. As the leader who did my car told me, if the owner is satisfied with the air flow from the vents and the sound of the radio, that was all he needed. As has been mentioned, the item does not have to be factory original. I have non-stock ignition on my '72.

              Comment

              • James F.
                Very Frequent User
                • December 1, 1985
                • 596

                #8
                Re: NCRS Founders Award-James

                James,
                OK as is. Regards

                Comment

                • James W.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • December 1, 1990
                  • 2652

                  #9
                  Re: NCRS Founders Award

                  Let me get this straight... The team leader or his designee doing the Operations Check for the NCRS Founders Award does not perform the Operations Check "by the book" or verbatum as described in items 1 through 30 in the Operations Check in the NCRS Judging Manual??? I was under the impression that the car and all the operations items checked had better function as if it was going to be flight judged.

                  Per the first paragraph where it says "however, all items must function as designed, intended, and expected when new, in order to receive no scoring deduction." "A 25 point deduction will be made per line item failure." "Partial deductions may be made for faulty or incomplete function."

                  So if I have some slight transmission bearing noise at idle or a little piston slap upon cold start-up it will only be given a partial deduction based on the judges determination during the Operations Check? I guess what I'm saying is my car is not perfect, it's a well maintained fare weather driver. Long ago (1984)my car was NCRS judged and received a second flight award. All items that could be correct have been. The car should easily receive a second flight award again and with the additonal points for driving to the meet to be judged, I am hopeful that it will make top flight. I just don't want to go into this Founders Award thinking that it will be easy to do, especially after a 900 plus mile drive from Omaha, NE. to Park City, UT in June of 2005.

                  Best Regards,

                  James West

                  Comment

                  • Jack H.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • April 1, 1990
                    • 9906

                    #10
                    Re: NCRS Founders Award

                    Don't confuse typical Flight Judging with the special Founders Award Ops Check. Read the NCRS Judging Reference Manual (the 'white' book) for a description of the Founder's Ops check. You'll see it's pretty 'loose' intended to check the gross functionality of the item(s) listed in the Flight Score Sheet, Operations Section. Example:

                    I have an aftermarket AM/FM/Cassette/10-Disk CD changer radio in my '71. During normal Flight (one of the first steps in the Founders Awards; get 3rd Flight or better). My aftermarket radio takes a full deduction in Flight because there are no mechanical tuning buttons to test/exercise during Operations Check and it's NOTHING like the factory original AM/FM radio (knobs, face plate, Etc.) during Interior judging.

                    But, when it comes to the Founder's Ops Check (done it four times now), the Team Leader climbs in, looks down, sees an obvious aftermarket radio and says, "Can you get an AM station? Good. Can you get an FM station? Great! Full pass, next item."

                    So, don't get too embroiled in what lies ahead regarding this/that item during your Founder's Ops Check. The award is intended to be partly to the car, partly to the owner who participates. It's all in good, clean fun, and from the sounds of your car, you'll have NO PROBLEM getting that yellow shirt and joining us!!!!!!!

                    Comment

                    • James F.
                      Very Frequent User
                      • December 1, 1985
                      • 596

                      #11
                      Re: NCRS Founders Award-James

                      James,
                      Again, don't sweat the transmission noise. My Founders judging at this year's National differed somwhat from past Jack's experiences. National Flight Operation judging was done outside prior to the Flight cars being driven inside the convention center. After the judges did these cars they walked over to the Founders cars and did the Operation judging on these cars. By this time the judges were well versed in what to look for in Operation's judging. These cars were judged (IMO) to the same standards as these judges had been using on the Flight cars. If a Founders car had a quartz clock or a non original radio, it either worked or it didn't (as Jack said). If the car had the Wonderbar radio, ALL the functions were checked, the horn was checked by pressing several places around the bezel, not just one place. You get the idea, this was a little more intense than it works or not.

                      Point to all this, a lot depends upon the event and the judges. I HAD NO PROBLEMS WITH THE LEVEL OF FOUNDERS JUDGING AT THE NATIONAL. The Founders award is a fun event. Don't overlook the most fun part of it, the road tour! Do it! Regards,

                      Comment

                      • Dennis C.
                        NCRS Past Judging Chairman
                        • January 1, 1984
                        • 2409

                        #12
                        Re: NCRS Founders Award-James

                        Jim Frakes - I believe you got it right and passed it on correctly. The NCRS Founders Award is a fun award to achieve, and not expensive to attain. Best, Dennis

                        Comment

                        • Jack H.
                          Extremely Frequent Poster
                          • April 1, 1990
                          • 9906

                          #13
                          Corrollary:

                          and once you get that Founders Award, you'll see your plaque has three additional places for add-on awards. Go fill 'er up and continue the fun!

                          BTW, I thought Roy was working on a method to expand the Founders plaque beyond its original + three add-on award certificates. I seem to remember him saying something to this effect at the Sun Valley Regional....

                          Something like an optional surround for the original frame with umpteen add-on locations might do the trick. Heck, now that I've filled my plaque, I have 'participation remorse'.... Do I start the process over or what????

                          Comment

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