I am doing reaserch on our 58 corvette. The car came from california. I have a registration from 1982. My question is: Does anyone know what 00/00/58 means in the "Date First Sold" box? Any help would be appreciated. Has anyone had any luck getting info out of the CA DMV? Eric
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Re: California Title/registration History question
Eric-----
The "date first sold" information was not used in the "old days". So, all the DMV knew was the year first sold in California when they added this information to the registration forms. That's why the "0's" appear in the month and day locations. My original owner 1969 Corvette is shown the same way on my registration.
California DMV was always pretty hard to get information out of. However, since the passage of "anti-stalking" related laws and "privacy concerns", it's just about impossible. Just another case of "...the many having to suffer for the sins of the few...".In Appreciation of John Hinckley -
Re: California Title/registration History question
Best guess would be that CA doesn't know the specific date (month/day) the car was sold so they left those "blank", and narrowed it down to the year 1958. And that may not even be correct depending on the VIN. If the car were manufactured in approximately the first two months of production, it COULD have been "first sold" in 1957.Comment
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Re: California Title/registration History question
Joe/Kevin, Thanks for the info. My next question is since it has the 58 in the box does that mean it's was originally sold in CA? If I imported a car in would they have that info? the VIN is j58s101789 which is a DEC 57 car so it may or may not have been delived by the end of 57. I ran inot a brick wall about 6 years ago reaserchin a RPO687 61 that came from CA. I was hoping it changed! Guess not. EricComment
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Another question or two
In California, is there any signifigance to the registration experation date? i.e. owners Birthday etc. This registration was issued 10/30/1982 but expired 5/22/1983. And what does the AX stand for in the 'class' box. I have attached a link to a picture of the reg. And one of the car as purchased back in 1989. It has since been restored. While I'm at it if anyone remembers this car please let me know. EricComment
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Re: Another question or two
Eric, I don't have any experience with CA DMV, but from what I understand, vehicles always keep the same license number, regardless of the owner. That being the case, it would be possible for a 'buyer' to purchase the car and have it registered 10/30/82, and since the license/registration was from a previous owner, it would expire when it was ORIGINALLY registered with the state, hence the expiration date of 5/22/83. I hope that makes sense. And from that, we may be able to surmise that the vehicle originally entered the state around May 22 of some year. I don't have any info about AX, but I would think that is something you could research on the DMV website or make a telephone call to a DMV supervisor in the capital.
As far as your research goes with CA. Federal law says that some info can be disclosed if you indicate that it is for RESEARCH ONLY. There are other classes of release, but I don't think they would apply. Of course, in the legal world, federal law doesn't always trump state law. By that, I mean that, it is permissable for state law to be more restrictive than federal law allows. So CA may be one of those states that don't allow any research releases.
If any of this is confusing, shoot me an e-mail, and I will explain more.Comment
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Re: Another question or two
Eric-----
A few things:
1) I believe that the date first sold applies to the date the car was first sold. However, the DMV would likely not have this information for a car brought in from out of state.
2) I checked my registration certificates and also my ownership certificate ("pink slip"). The registration certificates have the 00/00/69 format for the "date first sold". However, my original ownership certificate (dated 1972 since that's when I paid off the loan and the ownership certificate was reissued withot a "lienholder") has the exact, original date that I took delivery of the car. If you had an ownership certificate, it might provide this info;
3) The date that a car was first sold DOES have significance in California. That's the date the initial registration runs from for a period of 1 year and then must be renewed (with FEES paid). However, it wasn't always that way. In days of old, the registrations used to run 1 calendar year; all were renewed on or before January 1 of each year. If you bought a car new in, say, July, then you paid a pro-rated amount for the remaining 5 months of the year. I don't recall exactly when this system changed to the current one. Sometime in the 70s, I think. When the system changed, all existing cars were assigned a registration expiration date based upon the last alpha character in the license. For instance, the last alpha character in my 69's license was "I", the 11th letter of the alphabet, so I got November. After "J", it reverted to January for "K", and so on. I don't recall how the day of the month was established.
4) Until 1963, license plates were re-issued periodically in California, about every 5 years. As I recall, the original license plate number was used, but on a new license plate.In 1963, the last "general re-issuance" was done. After that, plates were not re-issued on a mass basis. A car got plates when it was new (as before 1963) and kept them until it "died". If the plates were lost, damaged or stolen, new plates were issued, but of a totally different number; NOT the original license number. The 1963 plates were the yellow-on- black and many are still out there. These plates were issued until October, 1969 when the yellow-on-blue plates appeared with "reverse" alpha numeric series (3 numbers first, then 3 letters).
4)This car has a number plate series which is POSSIBLY consistent with a car originally registered in California. I don't think that license plate numbers beginning with "M" were issued as early as 1958, but it's POSSIBLE that they were. In any event, if the car was brought into California from another state, it was likely done very early in its life.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Correction
I made an error in my previous post on this subject. "I" is not the 11th letter of the alphabet, it's, of course, the 9th. So, I guess that I've forgotten just how the month of expiration was determined for cars that already existed at the time that the change-over to the new system began. I know that it was related to one or more of the characters of the license number. I thought that it involved a consecutive type of thing (i.e. I thought that I remembered looking at license plates at the time and "figuring out" what their expiration was going to be), but it may have been some kind of arbitrary assignment of certain letters to month of expiration. I know that the system was designed to "spread out" the registration dates of existing cars over the full calendar year to ease the DMV workload.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: California Title/registration History question
Eric,
You can't get anything past 1987 registration from CA. The AX was just a DMV vehilce classification, and I don't remember what it meant. If you are really lucky you might be able to talk (good luck) with somebody (older) at DMV who remembers what it means. They started recording the actual sale date around the late 60s or early 70s, I think. An old reg. for my 1970 GTO shows the real first sale date (1.20.70).
GunnerComment
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Re: Another question or two
Joe, thanks for the information. I still have the MWM078 Plate. It is a black with yellow character 63 issue tag. I can see the embossed '63' in the corner behind all of the old stickers. I assumed this car was retagged in 63. It had a "Hansen" dealer license frame on it as well. EricComment
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Re: California Title/registration History question
Gunner, Thanks. I guess since I know the info back to 83 I am out of luck. Oh well. This old girl had an interesting history I am sure, only to be lost to time. Someone converted it to a drag racer complete with some neat vintage traction bars and a 4:56 rear end and som monster 3" exhaust pipes. EricComment
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M sequnce used in 58
Found a plate on line (see link) that has MCY791 as a plate sequence. It is possible that M plates, specifically MWM078, were issued in 56 with 58 stickers. EricComment
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AX: The "class" code for your '58
Eric:
On California registration certificates (along with attached ownership certificates, or titles, known by us from CA as "pink slips" because of their formerly pink color), the "class" code was a means of assigning a value to cars as a means of assigning taxation.
Case in point: CA is a greedy state. They want to get all of the money they can from you, especially in car transactions. For example, if you paid $55K for a '58 Corvette, they'd charge you whatever the going sales tax rate on $55K is (I can't remember what it is, I fled CA six years ago for Northern Idaho).
However, if your Uncle Charlie left this same Corvette to you in his will (in other words, for free to you), good old CA DMV would charge you by the "class", not the price you paid (free).
This system changed several years ago under a Republican administration in CA. Today, the only basis for charging sales tax on an acquired vehicle is upon the sale price.
At least one thing got better in CA.
Mark
P.S. I've tried my damndest to get history on cars from CA DMV. Don't waste your time, the computers won't handle the request and the clerical people don't care.
P.P.S. I can't resist telling you, and everybody else listening, about CA insurance. When new, my '94 Corvette coupe was $1800 per year for full coverage, a '94 convertible was $2400 per year. (This is with a perfect driving record, 45 years old, and seven discounts with the insurance company). In Idaho, this year, my '65 convertible, with the same coverages and the same insurance company (State Farm), is $200 per year. Thirty-six thousand people moved from CA to ID last year. No wonder.
Sorry about the soap box.Comment
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