Acrylic lacquer

[Eugene B.]

Members,
Thinking ahead regarding paint work on my '65. Is there a source for acrylic lacquer paint for these cars? The judging manual seems to state that no substitutes are acceptable. Do I understand completely?
Thanks,
Gene

[Jack H.]

Re: Acrylic lacquer

Acrylic lacquer is still available, but access to it as well as rules covering its application vary dramatically with State and local ordinances.... In Flight judging, the objective is to make the car 'appear' as if it just rolled off the assy line and your '65 was painted with acrylic lacquer without a final/clear coat. So, if your painter can devise an alternative paint that will absolutely/positively be undetectable to a savvy, skilled in the art, judge, then that works....

The very early Covettes were painted with nitro celluous lacquer and this has long been unavailable. Well, unavailable through conventional supply sources in the United States of America that is.... But, this paint is alive and well outside the US, and one of our chapter members DEAD SERIOUS about the authenticity of his restoration actually took a plane trip to Europe to have the original paint formula duplicated, dead nuts on, then shipped it to himself via surface freight. [Legally obtained while traveling abroad, yes, a hazardous material, but NOT a contraband material--therefore legal to repatriate to the US]

So, when your car goes on the judging field, expect it to sit adjacent to other restorer's Corvettes. When there's a patina, hue, texture difference, yep, deductions can and do occur because there are a handful of restorers who have turned heaven and earth in their restorations and that's what your car just might encounter along the campaign trail.

[Bill W.]

Re: Acrylic lacquer

Yes there are lots of stores still selling lacquer. the harder part is finding someone who knows how to paint it.Dupont seems to give the best matches.your location will have alot to do with finding paint and painters. Bill

[Jace H.]

But What If I Don't Use Lacquer Paint?

I have decided not to use lacquer paint on my Marina Blue 67 roadster. I have read where some use a flattening agent and/or tint the clear coat to try and simulate it. Is that a good idea? How many points will I lose for base/coat clear coat? Also how much "Orange Peel" should be in the paint?

Thanks,
Jace Holt

[Eugene B.]

Re: But What If I Don't Use Lacquer Paint?

Jace,
I guess what's going through my mind (on my '65) is a full paint job is so expensive, does it make sense to spend all that money on a non-authenic paint job that may actually decrease the value of the car when time comes to sell? For this reason and the fact that I want the car to look the way it did from the factory, I intend to use acrylic lacquer. I appreciate your thoughts and response to my question.
Gene

[Chuck S.]

Re: But What If I Don't Use Lacquer Paint?

Gene, you may want to check out the article written by Tom Ames in the latest NCRS Restorer magazine.

Tom and DuPont tech reps have given tech sessions covering the article material for at least the last two national conventions (not sure if he did it this year at Hershey). They make a good case for ditching the "New" acrylic lacquer in favor of modern single stage or two stage finishes using techniques to make those finishes "APPEAR" as acrylic lacquer.

Present day "acrylic lacquer" is not your daddy's acrylic lacquer of the fifties and sixties. According to the tech sessions, Government regulations have resulted in acrylic lacquers that are a completely different product; they lack chemical resistance and workability of the old lacquers. This revelation begs the question: How authentic IS a car painted with the new acrylic lacquers? My opinion is perhaps in name only.

In addition to being a Corvette enthusiast, Tom is a professional painter and the owner of his own bodyshop. When I first met Tom at a Texas Chapter regional maybe twelve years ago, he (as all NCRS was at that time) was as zealous about discovering BC/CC as Saul of Tarsus was about persecuting Christians. My, what change time and government paint regulations have wrought on Tom. I guess Tom paraphased the question you asked in another way..."Why spend all that money on a Corvette paint job only to be afraid to drive it and risk damage from bird doo or acid rain?"

It's your decision, but consider all the facts objectively. I made my mind up a long time ago. I'll have this Corvette and be driving it long after the judging is done.

[Karl #35089]

Re: lacquer

Hi Chuck: Do you know what specifically has changed in acrylic lacquer? Or do you have a contact at DuPont that will know? All of my contact with them to date has left me unable to identify this change. Thanks in advance. -Karl

[Chuck S.]

Re: lacquer

Karl, neither of the DuPont tech reps presenting with Tom Ames at Galveston (2001) or Monterey (2002) gave specific information about how the acrylic lacquer product had changed. They only said that government regulations had required acrylic lacquer to be reformulated, presumably to lower the VOC to reduce air pollution. If the DuPont reps knew the specific chemical changes, they weren't saying. It may have been because the technical specifics would be beyond the understanding of most of the audience, but then DuPont may consider the specific information proprietary.

Clearly, DuPont is working to get themselves out of the acrylic lacquer business, and is not pushing acrylic lacquer. But, I still thought that DuPont representatives were remarkably frank in saying straight out that their current acrylic lacquer product (same name, Lucite, but altogether different paint) would not stand up to bird doo and acid rain, and would not maintain gloss and color like the old acrylic lacquer of the sixties. Instead, the people that sell the stuff are recommending modern finishes to improve customer satisfaction.

I still have a card for the DuPont rep that worked with Tom Ames in Galveston. You can contact him and see if he will give you any more specifics: Michael J. Matlack, Sales Representative, DuPont Automotive Finishes, Houston TX, 713-461-5650, Message 800-994-6245, ID#1305280.

After all that, I hope Matlack is still working there. Also, you can get in touch with Tom Ames (contact info in the Restorer); he may also be able to help you with additional information about the changes.

[Frank H.]

Re: lacquer

The paint hasn't changed in this part of the country its more to do with the thinners and binders used in it and I have a gallon of 65-67 pearl silver dupont lucite that I don't plan to use anymore when you compare a lacquer paint jobs real life of about seven or eight years of looking good to just lasting like the one on my 62 which I painted in 1979 with just two quarts of color and two quarts of clear mostly rubbed thru but will still need all that brittle lacquer stripped off to look good and last is the worst part of using lacquer.Some of the new single stage paints you still base the car then add the base to the clear so it still rubs thru in layers and looks like fresh lacquer but lasting maybe thirty years and looking good all the way.And if you do have to paint it you don't have to strip it ,it give you a solid base to sand on as the clear fills just as good as primer..........My two Cents

[Eugene B.]

Re: But What If I Don't Use Lacquer Paint?

Chuck,
Thank you for your reply and the information about paint article in the Restorer Magazine. I will definately check it out. Regarding paint, I been fooled again! I foolishly made the assumption that the acrylic lacquer that is available today, is made to the same formulation as the paint of by-gone days. If that is not the case, then you are correct to say that it is acrylic lacquer in name only, and that's not worth much. Especially if the characteristics of today's lacquer are not the same as before. My car still has "old time" acrylic lacquer on it, so I'm now leaning in the direction of leaving the paint as is. Thank you again for the great information.
Gene

[Karl #35089]

Re: lacquer

Chuck: Thanks for the reply. I will give them a call. BTW, I have also been probing DuPont on any plans to discontinue lacquer and have come up with no such plans. I had been working directly with corporate tech support on the assumption that I'd get engineers and not sales pitch. Maybe, ironically, I need to talk to some sales reps to get the scoop. Anyhow, thanks again and I'll be sure to share any info I can confirm. -Karl

[Chuck S.]

Re: lacquer

Karl, these DuPont reps cards say they are sales representatives, but in all fairness, these guys are really field tech reps.

They are the guys that get called when body shops have a paint problem. They solve the problems that paint shops make for themselves by improper preparation and application; consequently, they see much more of DuPont's product being misused and abused than any of the corporate techies that formulate the products. When they said their own acrylic lacquer doesn't measure up, I believed them, because they are the guys that take the heat when vehicle owners and paintshops are unhappy.

Best of luck in your endeavor, and thanks for letting us know what you find out.