I've been to two chapter meets these past two weekends and have a few questions(no it's not on restamps!) Here's question #1 Why do you get full originality point deductions on a non-GM battery when it's a functional battery, correctly working, operates the vehicle and accessories, correct appearance(side posts, shape and black) and I believe its a 30 pt deduct, when on a replacement windshield(non-GM vendor) you get only half of 24 pts. taken off on originality??? I could understand all originality points taken off if the battery was completely missing but not for one that is as described above! Question #2 I've had 30pts on originality, 30 pts condition taken off for Michelin X One s(narrow stripe)tires representing the original unsafe Firestone 500 white stripes(I don't think Firestone makes a '73-'77 narrow white stripe type tire to replace the originals). I have a chance to buy a set of Goodyear GR70-15 "Steel Belted Radial" NOT THE CORRECT "STEELGARDS", but still a GR70-15 with a correct vendor without the Steelgard(model?)name. What should the point deduction now be??? Has to be better than a -60!!! Thanks
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Re: Judging Questions
Phil,
Let me take a run at your questions by casting the situation in this light:
Buy current Delco battery for $40 and get 20 originality points + 10 condition points? That comes out to $40/30 points or $1.33 per point. The best reproduction battery is $180 for 20 more originality points. $180/20 points = or $9 per point.
How much does a windshield (any style) cost? My guess is several hundred and a correct reproduction more yet. I am guessing at windshield prices, but if you figure points/dollar I doubt you will come close to $1.33 per point or even $9 per point.
Another tip, while these are not in the Judging Reference Manual and thus will be different for different classes - currently for 1968 to 1972:
Current GM oil filter = $2 on sale. 5 originality points + 5 condition points = $2/10 points or $.20 per point. Reproduction white oil filter: $20. Points increase over current GM 5 originality points: cost increment $18/5 points = $3.60 per point.
Current air filter $5 on sale. 5 originality points + 10 condition points = $5/15points or $0.33 per point. To get the last 5 points here you will need a NOS filter at $100 to $150. Reproduction filters will receive a 1 or 2-point deduction depending on their style. I don't know what their cost is, but you can do the math.
The owner can decide where to spend the dollars, but if you figure cost per point you can see there is a wide range of options available. In most cases the incremental cost goes up as one nears perfection - not an uncommon event in life in general. We do not set these points standards based on the cost per dollar, but as you can see it is to your advantage to base your parts purchases on that standard. With respect to the battery and filters our intent is to encourage owners to display the car with items made by the original manufacturer, keeping in mind that these items are perishable. I suggest to you that a windshield is far less perishable, not to mention less easily replaced, than a battery and filters. Our thinking with respect to the windshield is that most folks will choose to replace with the best reproduction available since a significant portion of the total windshield cost involves installation. Now let me see, since I am in the process of changing the 1968 to 1972 score sheets would you recommend I change the points for the windshield or the points for the filters and battery?
Consider also the cost of the fire extinguisher, battery cut off and NCRS decal for the 10 points you gain. The intent of those points is to lessen the need to spend major money for original tires or other NOS items.
I don't want to step into the radial tire issue because that is not my years, but I suggest you do the same points per dollar calculation with the options available to you. It is not too hard to figure out where to spend your money. In the case of radials, I am not aware of the available options. My sense is they may be more limited until enough owners demand a suitable reproduction tire. With respect to tires there will generally be some point deduction for a detectable reproduction just to reward the owner who does have the original items. Even in my years, where several reproductions of differing quality are available, the best reproduction still generates a small deduction for that reason
Hope this helps you somewhat.
Terry McManmon
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Re: Judging Questions
Phil,
Let me take a run at your questions by casting the situation in this light:
Buy current Delco battery for $40 and get 20 originality points + 10 condition points? That comes out to $40/30 points or $1.33 per point. The best reproduction battery is $180 for 20 more originality points. $180/20 points = or $9 per point.
How much does a windshield (any style) cost? My guess is several hundred and a correct reproduction more yet. I am guessing at windshield prices, but if you figure points/dollar I doubt you will come close to $1.33 per point or even $9 per point.
Another tip, while these are not in the Judging Reference Manual and thus will be different for different classes - currently for 1968 to 1972:
Current GM oil filter = $2 on sale. 5 originality points + 5 condition points = $2/10 points or $.20 per point. Reproduction white oil filter: $20. Points increase over current GM 5 originality points: cost increment $18/5 points = $3.60 per point.
Current air filter $5 on sale. 5 originality points + 10 condition points = $5/15points or $0.33 per point. To get the last 5 points here you will need a NOS filter at $100 to $150. Reproduction filters will receive a 1 or 2-point deduction depending on their style. I don't know what their cost is, but you can do the math.
The owner can decide where to spend the dollars, but if you figure cost per point you can see there is a wide range of options available. In most cases the incremental cost goes up as one nears perfection - not an uncommon event in life in general. We do not set these points standards based on the cost per dollar, but as you can see it is to your advantage to base your parts purchases on that standard. With respect to the battery and filters our intent is to encourage owners to display the car with items made by the original manufacturer, keeping in mind that these items are perishable. I suggest to you that a windshield is far less perishable, not to mention less easily replaced, than a battery and filters. Our thinking with respect to the windshield is that most folks will choose to replace with the best reproduction available since a significant portion of the total windshield cost involves installation. Now let me see, since I am in the process of changing the 1968 to 1972 score sheets would you recommend I change the points for the windshield or the points for the filters and battery?
Consider also the cost of the fire extinguisher, battery cut off and NCRS decal for the 10 points you gain. The intent of those points is to lessen the need to spend major money for original tires or other NOS items.
I don't want to step into the radial tire issue because that is not my years, but I suggest you do the same points per dollar calculation with the options available to you. It is not too hard to figure out where to spend your money. In the case of radials, I am not aware of the available options. My sense is they may be more limited until enough owners demand a suitable reproduction tire. With respect to tires there will generally be some point deduction for a detectable reproduction just to reward the owner who does have the original items. Even in my years, where several reproductions of differing quality are available, the best reproduction still generates a small deduction for that reason
Hope this helps you somewhat.
Terry McManmon
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