Trying to replace the side yokes on my friend's '77 with rebuilt yokes. One had a "C" clip, the other is gone, fell off/wore out. Can't remove them due to "mushrooming" of the end. Any ideas how to remove them without damaging anything else? The one without the clip is missing about a 1/4" of metal. All that ground-up metal in gear oil can't be good. My '65 with more miles on it seems like it has only a few thousands play. Don't know if my yokes are original.
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Re: C3 side yokes mushroomed
Andy------
There are 2 things that you can do to remove the axles. First, you can try using a slide hammer and MODERATE force to remove them. If the mushrooming is not too bad, this will work without damaging anything.
Otherwise, you'll have to get in there and remove as much of the mushrooming as you can with a Dremel or similar tool. An extension attachment will make this easier as the space that you have to work in is quite small. This can be tedious, but it's the only way that I know of. You will still likely have to use a slide hammer to finish the removal.
During the mid-to-late 70s many of the stub axles used by GM in both PRODUCTION and SERVICE had very thin case hardening. This circumstance leads to the much shorter life of stub axles. Mid-year and early 70s Corvettes had stub axles with better heat treat and they last a lot longer. They still wear out, though, with high mileage.In Appreciation of John Hinckley -
Thank You Joe
Joe,
I think we need to use the Dremel to avoid damage to the spider gear splines. GM should have improved the heat treatment in the '70s instead of the opposite. All that metal in the gear lube bothers me.Comment
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Re: Thank You Joe
Andy - yes, that steel in the oil is not a good situation. This is the time to go through the rear end, replace the bearings and clutch pack for the posi. The filings can damage the bearing races, rollers, and imbed in the clutch friction discs. The rebuilt yokes with a hardened tip are good because the whole end is hard, or, for first rate new units, it is hard to beat the units Tom forges from International Axle....see link below....Craig
International Axle & ManufacturingComment
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Sounds good Craig, Thanks *NM*
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Re: Thank You Joe
Andy-----
The problem with case hardening of the stub axles is that a very delicate balance has to be struck. The case hardening has to be thick enough to provide wear resistance and a durable part but not so deep as to significantly weaken the torsional strength of the axle. With a monolithic structure like these axles, it's got to be a compromise. Getting it right, or as right as possible, is an art as well as a science.
That's the beauty of the rebuilt stub axles with hardened buttons installed on the ends. In this configuration, the monolithic structure is eliminated, at least for the wear-critical ends. In this design, the button is a seperate and THROUGH-HARDENED piece. It does not need to have any torsional strenth since none is required of the button end. So, it can be completely through-hardened with certainty. The thickness of the button and the through-hardening mean that it's good for a lifetime. You'll NEVER wear one out on the inner end.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Thank You Joe
Joe, Maybe not the stub axles, but I would wonder about the pin hardness then. DaveComment
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Re: Thank You Joe
Dave-----
No, it's usually not a problem. Here's why: the center pin is hardened to a very high Rockwell hardness. That's why you'll often find the stub axles ground down to the c-clip groove with barely a scratch on the pin. Usually, the axle rebuilders have the buttons hardened to just slightly less Rockwell hardness than the pins. This way, the wear is still on the button but, due to the very high Rockwell hardness and the close Rockwell hardness to the pin, there is VERY little wear on the button. Plus, the wear on the button proceeds VERY slowly due to the through-hardening of the button. With the original, monolithic axle shafts, once the case hardening is worn through, wear progresses VERY rapidly. That won't happen with the buttons.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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You're correct about the pin Joe...
The pin looks perfect not even a scratch. I only wish GM made the axles like the rebuilt ones. Sounds like the rebuilds are better than the new International Axle units due to the compromises in case hardening you mentioned on an earlier post. Thanks again Joe.Comment
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Re: You're correct about the pin Joe...
Andy - you may be right about that given the through hardening of the buttons. However, the international axle material is a better grade than the originals. Charlie Smith has built some serious drag cars using these axles, and I can attest to the robustness of the forgings in the yoke area. However, as Joes states, this is still a monolithic design. I guess the best would be the international axles after having been rebuilt with buttons. Maybe someday I can tell you how the set I have for the 74 project LS6 car fare....CraigComment
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Sounds like a good combination Craig! *NM*
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Re: You're correct about the pin Joe...
Craig-----
The International Axle new stub axles are definitely superb. I think that they will last as long as any of us are going to need them.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: You're correct about the pin Joe...
Joe - I can tell you this much, I have met Tom many times at BG and Carlisle, and toured his facility in the MSP area. His attention to detail is second to none, and he has great pride in his process control, plus he is a real stand up friendly and pleasant guy. I watched his CNC lathe turn a wheel spindle, and it was a blast to watch. He made a big point of his flanges being true within a few tenths over the entire surfaced area. I really appreciated this since I am a shadetree machinist myself. I have no worries about these parts....or the stub axles. The forgings are first rate and really look superior to the GM forgings in the webbed areas, the surface finish, and the surface grinding is flawless. And I am in no way affiliated with Tom...just impressed with his parts and operation from personal experience... CraigComment
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Re: You're correct about the pin Joe...
Just my two cents worth. If the car is a big block or any Corvette that may be driven hard, then I'd advise against the axels with the buttons. They are usually used cores that have the buttons added. As such you don't know which side of the car they came from. These shafts do twist some and I personally think it's a bad idea to turn them backwards from where they took a set. Too easy to break. But, if it's a Sunday driver, it probably wouldn't matter. For the record, I drive mine like it's stolen. I went with Tom's axels and no problems after many years of abuse.Comment
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Re: You're correct about the pin Joe...
They are impressive pieces aren't they? More like art than parts you want to use. And the tools are superb as well....your points about twist make sense, Since my 74 with this LS6 and a 4.11 is going to be...well, DRIVEN HARD, I wanted strength more than NCRS appearance. You gotta love those billet CNC caps too.....CraigComment
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