C2 wrecked 12/11/02. New member needs your help

**Mike Yager** · January 21, 2003, 09:56 AM

Re: C2 wrecked 12/11/02. New member needs your hel

I would suggest you get in touch with someone from your local NCRS chapter. Chances are there is someone that can provide expert appraisals or knows someone who can. If you have no luck with that, send me an email and I will recommend some people in Virginia who may be able to help you.

**Jack H.** · January 21, 2003, 01:39 PM

Several Issues Here....

First 'Survivor' is a registered trademark of the 'other' guys--NCCB/Bloomington. At NCRS, our similar award is called Star/Bowtie. While the two are similar, there ARE differences.

NCRS Award looks at Interior, Exterior, Mechanical, and Chassis. There is NO Operations review. Car does not have to actually start/run/work. Only component originality is considered and the yardstick is 80% originality on Mechanical and Chassis plus 85% on Interior/Exterior. Condition (in your case effects of accident) is NOT a judging issue. So, conceivably, you could still campaign this car, as is, for Star/Bowtie without touching a thing and not suffer consequence(s)..... In this light, things don't bode well for claiming loss/damage due to the accident.

NCCB Award looks at the whole car from the view "Worn in, but not worn out". The car DOES have to operate and must sucessfully navigate (finish--time in transit is not the issue) a road course. As such, the 'cut line' for the award is lower as routine maintenance + component changes to keept the vehicle intact are tolerated with originality criteria lowered to the 60% range.

Obviously, one would want to campaign a given car at NCRS first, then fix/replace this/that and vie for NCCB award. Unless, the car truly is a pristine example of original factory workmanship (was bought/delivered, Johnny went to Nam, never came back, and there she sits virtually unused).

On the separate subject of damages and insurance, much will depend on how you had the car insured. A special form of insurance that's called 'collector' policy is based on 'inland marine' proceedures. When a ship sinks at sea, who's to really say what was on-board, Etc? So, these policies are constructed with premium that's table driven (so much per $1000 insured value). They also typically have MANY restrictions built-in (only so many miles per year, a secure permanent garage facility, use for specific purpose like parade/show only, no parking/unattended use on public highway/parking lot, Etc.). In this, case you don't have to 'prove' a value -- you simply turn in your claim and hope the insurer doesn't discover you've violated a use restriction covenant that could potentially void the policy!!!!!

In standard auto insurance, the typical 'driver' policy has fine print on the back restricting their exposure to your risk to the 'ACTUAL CASH VALUE' of the car. This put the monkey on your back to PROVE what the car was worth at the time of incident. If you hadn't had the car judged (doesn't prove value but does argue a 'general' range of value) or appraised prior to your loss (time inverval will be important here--how long between your appraisal and the loss incident?), you could be in a world of hurt!

There's another variation on standard auto insurance that I consider a 'sucker' play--the 'stated' or 'declared' value policy. Here, you get appraisal, establish a value for the vehicle and a policy rider is issued with an appropriate 'bump' in annual premium for the feature. The Catch-22, and most issuing insurance agents are completely ignorant of it, is the fine print in the policy limits the insurer's risk exposure to either the Acutal Cash Value OR the stated/declared value, whichever is LESS at the time of loss!

Insurance company's rarely come back and ask for periodic updates on your initial stated/declared value appraisal (heck, it's in their best interest to let that appraisal get as old/stale as possible). So, unless the owner keeps a 'doomsday' file of periodic appraisals to document the continued value of the vehicle over time, he's left in the position of a standard policy at the time of incident arguing/proving the vehicle's Actual Cash Value which many insurers will proceed to prove equals the current blue book (scrap yard junker vehicle)....

I've 'discussed' this with a number of insurance agents from well known insurance companies and each time they actually read the stated/declared value policy rider and/or called to talk with the underwriting department of their company, they were SHOCKED to find out I was right!!!!!!!!!!

**Ron Strausborger** · January 21, 2003, 02:45 PM

Re: Several Issues Here....

The insurance company said she admitted fault and they will pay for repair. It just happens to be the same carrier. What pitfalls do you see Jack under that sceneio? Thanks for the insight. For the record, my policy is stated value and I was aware of the issues you pointed out.

**Ron Strausborger** · January 21, 2003, 02:50 PM

Re: C2 wrecked 12/11/02. New member needs your hel

Thanks Mike. I will attend next Carolinas Chapter meeting. I will be in touch if I need VA referral. Ron

**Everett Ogilvie** · January 21, 2003, 03:54 PM

Stated vs. Agreed Value

This has been discussed often and most of us are still confused about it, but my policy with State Farm is supposed to be "Agreed Value", and I have it in writing (email) from the Corporate Office that the Agreed Value printed on the policy is the ACV, unless the condition of the vehicle has changed. That last part is where the responsibility falls on the owner to somehow document the condition of the vehicle regularly so you have a shot at the agreed value on the policy. Anyone else have any thoughts or info regarding stated vs. agreed value policies?

**John H.** · January 21, 2003, 04:22 PM

Re: Stated vs. Agreed Value

Been through this for many years, on many cars (and my family was in the insurance business for about 60 years). "Stated Value" simply protects the insurer by capping the max they'd have to pay out on a total loss; they are only obligated to pay UP TO (key words) the "stated value" noted in the policy, but are free to establish by their own methods (depreciation tables, Kelley books, bank stats, or any other method they prefer) what the "Actual Cash Value" of the car was at the time of the loss, and write a check for that amount, so you're at their mercy and are bound to be dissatisfied with the result.

On the other hand, an "Agreed Value" policy (which is normally only issued with fairly significant operating and storage restrictions, and usually requires photos at a minimum and occasionally a professional appraisal) states a value up-front that you and the insurer have "agreed" upon for the car; in the event of a total loss, the insurer writes you a check for the "agreed" value, no questions asked, no depreciation, no arguments, no negotiations (assuming they don't find you in violation of the policy covenants relative to operation and storage).

I think probably 75% of classic Corvette owners don't have the coverage they think they do (like "stated value" instead of "agreed value"), or have the right coverage but are in violation of the requirements of an "agreed value" policy, and the wrong time to find that out is when you have a total loss. The name of the game is to insure your car for the way you use it, not to be in violation of the restrictions (the reduced rates for "agreed value" policies are based on the insurer's reduced loss exposure created by the restrictions), and READ THE POLICY - EVERY WORD OF IT; regardless of what an agent tells you, if it isn't in the policy, it ain't gonna happen - the insurers have lots more lawyers than you do, and their business is based on the policy, which is a legally binding contract with you. You hold up your end, and they have to hold up their end - but you'd better understand exactly what those "ends" are, and be in compliance, or you'll wish you had been when you have a total loss.

**Joe T.** · January 21, 2003, 05:39 PM

Re: C2 wrecked 12/11/02. New member needs your hel

i know how you feel, iwas driving my 66 convertible on veterans day and a middle aged woman in as 87 buick regal lost control of her car and ran me off the road, as i waited for the impact of her car on mine i looked up and saw that i was about to hit an oak tree so i swung my car left to avoid the tree, this got my rear out of her way as she went off the road on my side, i looked up again to see that i was about to hit a fire hydrant, whipped the car to the right and missed the hydrant but hit a sign, it was so tight between the oak tree and the hydrant i had to climb out the passenger side only to see the woman drive away, cops got her though, wrecked my bumper and cracked my fender near the signal light, i had to get an original bumper from a dealer, he felt so sick about my story he gave me a set of beautiful 66 hub caps, she's now good as new, fix your car and drive it, good luck!!!!!!!

**Greg A.** · January 21, 2003, 06:11 PM

Re: C2 wrecked 12/11/02. New member needs your hel

Ron, One issue that has not been discussed is the "diminished value" of your car after repairs. Since it was an original "never hit" car and will now likely have replaced/repaired parts, has the value decreased and how much? This is where you need a third party who specializes in appraisals and diminished value claims. I found a local independent appraiser who appraised my '78 Silver Anniversary Top Flight/Founders car specifically to guard against this. He is recognized by the major insurance companies as a specialist in classic car values. Since he knows the car and has documented the current condition, the idea is that if I ever have a major damage claim, I will have a good case to recover some of this "disminished value." Who knows if or how much I could get, but that's the way it's supposed to work.

Perhaps you can talk to a local appraiser (find them in the Yellow Pages.) Ask a lot of questions and then talk to your insurance company.

Good luck!

Greg.

**Ron Strausborger** · January 21, 2003, 06:34 PM

Re: C2 wrecked 12/11/02. New member needs your hel

Thanks for your response. You hit the nail on the head! While I would not wish "my circumstances" on anybody, I was hoping that some members might share the outcome of their similar insurance issues/debates before I had to battle them directly. Members are free to send a private email if they prefer
rlstraus@bellsouth.net

**Jack H.** · January 21, 2003, 10:40 PM

Amen! *NM*

C2 wrecked 12/11/02. New member needs your help

C2 wrecked 12/11/02. New member needs your help

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