"Over " Restored???

[Kevin T.]

Recognizing the exacting standards and attention to detail of the NCRS, I am not quite sure what the above term means. I have seen and heard about the negativity associated with that type of description. Could someone explain how a car can be "over" restored, and provide some examples? ... Not that I am contemplating such a thing, or is my 59 capable of that possibility. I am just curious. Thanks, - Kevin

[Roy Braatz]

Re: "Over " Restored???

Kevin! The one thing that I always notice is the fiberglass body.C1's not showing any waves on the fenders or not seeing the fire-wall bump where it is bonded to the front side fender. Or the C2's not showing any bonding panel connection.And lets face it,how can any one not over restore a Corvette today. Any one think G.M sent them out looking like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike G.]

Re: "Over " Restored???

In addition to Roy's comments, I think it means the paint is too shiny, there's no overspray, bumpers have a higher than original quality chrome, aluminum valve covers are polished, etc.

[Donald L.]

Re: "Over " Restored???

Kevin,
Enjoy the perfection and take the deduct. Its a small price to pay.

[Loren L.]

Early '90's - Sedona Meet

Special Guests: Jim Gaylord, Russell Sanders (author of the SAE paper on the 1955 V8 and first owner of EX-122 (but only after he had it reframed, rebodied, reinteriored , reengined and retransmissioned) as Gaylord reviewed slides of the restored EX-122 and said "Russ, have you ever seen a Corvette that looks as good as that? Look, there are no ripples, no low spots...". Russell's response: "He's got a really good camera, Jim.".

[Loren L.]

Yes, but is it "Restoration"? - NOT *NM*

[Ray C.]

Re: "Over " Restored???

Hi!
1965 restoration project has finally received it's Glen Green lacquer (painted today!). I have preformed most of the restoration work, but it is too cold here in Western NY for me to spray the lacquer in my shop. The body man that is painting the car recommends a Gleen Green tinted clear coat over the lacquer. I am 99% against it because of the amount of work preformed to restore the car to it's original condition, but there is still that 1%. I would like the views of other members.

Thanks! Ray

[Larry P.]

Re: "Over " Restored???

If I pull my 60 into the Friday night car cruz with a "restored" correct paint job, what is the percentage of people looking at the car that will see a bad paint job compared to the percentage that will say "WOW thats correct!
I'm sure at some point I will have my car judged. I'll take the deduct.
Larry

[Tom H.]

Re: "Over " Restored???

This is a valuable discussion. There is a very decided and rigorous opinion of the differences between conservation and restoration and what many members of NCRS do. In the world of art, antiques and european auto conservation including American institutions such as the Henry Ford and the Smithsonian much of the NCRS approach is blasphemous. Most of the NCRS/Bloomington product is rightly considered to be simply counterfeit. This is especially the case when all variety of chassis marks are recreated on frames after they been chemically or mechanically stripped, blocks restamped, painting stripped and redone and on and on. If the Corvette was viewed as an antique and any of these "restoration" techniques were employed, the antique value would be destroyed. This is the viewpoint of any auction house appraisal such as Christie's etc. The finish of any painting, auto, antique is only conserved when the value is intended to be preserved. Only basket cases get the redo and they are viewed as recreations and in the view of some-such as the Goodwood Revival scrutineering- they are considered replicas. Few of these cars will ever realize any return on the "restoration" investment so the usual arguments about preserving the value of the car is bogus. A modest condition mid year is currently yielding mid 20K. If the car was purchased new at 5k, the sale would yield maybe 15 to 20K. Take a FI mid year and fully restore it and you would most likely not break even. In fact a "parted out" mid year could bring multiples of its whole value. Another interesting argument has been made that any mass produced object has little intrinsic value; hence, top quality Corvettes at 50 to 75K while legit Cobras at 200 to 500K. The short answer to your qustion is yes you can easily and incorrectly over restore. Clean the car, carefully mend the paint, upholstery etc., preserve the actual original chassis markings, clean the cluster, spot refinish where necessary AND ABOVE ALL- Do not confuse a frame off reconstruction for a conserved and valuable vehicle. The recon is fun but it is absolutely no different than a street rod- beautiful but not authentic.

[Bill W.]

Re: "Over " Restored???

If your going to clear it ,then clear it. mixing small amounts of clear only lets a judge pull color (maybe). it will look like %$#@ when some one buffs through the clear and hits green . any metalics can be buffed if the paint is applied right. when painting always remember "less is best" .the least amount of meterial you use the less problems you will have.Bill

[John M.]

Re: "Over " Restored???

I would agree with Tom's assesement If we are talking about a really original correct and original car that has most of it's original paint, interior, mechanical, ect. There is a class for this type of car and it is called BOWTIE!
To to try to say that Bowtie standards should be applied to a car that has had a couple of paint jobs, a new interior, ans many repairs that did not use original parts, makes no sense. If we CONSERVE a car in this manner, then we have exactly what he is comparing us to, museum pieces. A car CONSERVED in this manner will in all likeleyhood not be driven, but put on static display,and only trailered from place to place.
There is nothing wrong with this, and I applaud anyone who owns such a car, as they are the cars which supply the standards for those of us who are not fortunate enough to own such a car. A lot of us restore an old Corvette to be able to drive it whenever the mood hits us and an original car as he desribes it would not fill the bill. Is my car painted too slick? You bet it is! I have stayed with lacquer, but I did not put all orange peel that the factory did in the paint. I take a few points at judging, but that is okay because I have to look at the car every day!
My car is a frame-off car that has every nut and bolt restored with a minimum of new parts, and the car is great fun to drive and has incredible looks. It is a Top Flight car and with any luck, it will Duntov at Hershey this year. After that it will probably never be on a judging field again and will just be driven.
I have not invested a fortune in the restoration as I performed most all of the work myself, and already have refused an offer that is $25K more than my total hard money investment in the car! Sure I have a huge ammount of hours in the car, but that in my opinion, is most of the fun! My reccomendation would be to do what will make you happy and as long as you can live with the point deducts, then go for it. There are 4500 points out there, and you are not going to get every one of them, so get the ones you can live with!

Regards, John McGraw

[Tom H.]

Re: "Over " Restored???

John- Your response hit the nail on the head. You did the work, you drive the car and you seem to understand that the car is a facsimile of the vehicle that came off the assembly line. The issue that percolated my response was an ad nauseum discussion of a block stamping with respect to its authenticity. I found it absurd to endlessly debate stamping depths etc. on this car when there was little or nothing "original" on the vehicle. If the car originally came with the engine indicated on the documentation available, it frankly matters little whether the block was the actual cast iron that departed St. Louis or elsewhere as most of the car in question was not what left St. Louis. Of course the authenticity of the block stamping is much different with very rare historic cars of which only a handful were produced or survive as the entire commercial value is intrinsic to the unique character of the vehicle. This discussion is not about that special class of vehicles; it is about vehicles produced in the tens of thousands which have very little intrinsic value. With respect to the BOWTIE category, I don't see why anyone would not drive a "conserved" car. The various vintage racing organizations around the world regularly flog well conserved and often extremely rare vehicles around race courses. In America the cars are driven at 80 per cent but in Europe the historics are driven at 10/10's and often damaged. This discussion is not intended as a criticism of anyone's endeavour to create whatever car their imagination dictates. It is intended to inject a pespective of what is conservation and what is re-creation and the distinct and equally valid and enjoyable differences between them. It also is intended to repond to the topic of "Over Restored" which is a very contentious topic. It is DEFINITELY NOT a criticism of all the hard work that NCRS members do to advance the knowledge base.

[Craig S.]

Re: "Over " Restored???

John- my sentiments exactly!...Craig

[Dave Suesz]

"over restored" defined

Simply put, over-restoration is when the fit and finish is applied to a level exceeding that of the original manufacture. Examples would be perfectly smooth, high gloss paint with no "orange peel" at all, caulk or sealer applied absolutely straight with no globs or gaps, engine compartment paint applied perfectly, with no runs or sags, etc. Remember, these are pre-computer/laser assembly cars, built by humans in a hurry to get the cars out the door.

[Jack H.]

John's Point....

was both NCRS and NCCB have two separate categories for evaluating (judging) Corvettes; restored and unrestored. The moto is restoration/preservation. With an 'unrestored' Corvette the owner emphasizes preservation. With a 'restored' Corvette the restoration process is the primary focus.

I don't think anyone has a monopoloy on righteousness regarding which way is 'best' or 'correct'. I've seen the cars run at Goodwood's Revival and you might be surprised to learn that some of the key players who manage that event are also NCRS members involved in 'restoring' Corvettes for Flight purposes (restored vs. unrestored).

Take a tour of the Imperial War Museum (especially the air annex at Duxford) and see what her Magesty belives to be the 'correct' definition of a true and authentic restoration. How about a 1929 DeHaviland where the original canvass covering the wing skeletons has been replaced with sheet vinyl plastic? The use of nylon tie wraps to substitute for various original fasteners? Installing sealed beam, Guide T3 headlights then spraying the lens' with fresh gun-slit backout paint in Dwight Eisenhower's original field inspection Jeep?

Look, there are many interpretations of what's 'right', 'correct', a 'restoration', an 'original', a 'counterfeit', and so on. And such nuiassances will ONLY be resolved one at a time, on a personal basis, individual by individual.

At NCRS, we have published rules (albeit nowhere near as concise/complete as we'd like) to serve as a framework for the HOBBY and SPORT we pursue. AND, we recognize the daily driver (awards like Founders & Sportsman), the restored Corvette (Flight), the non-restored Corvette (Star/Bowtie) and the bona fide unique/one-off Corvette (American Heritage). Contrast the vast choice we have, our level of written sophistication, and our openess to any other car marque club (Camaro, Mustang, Jaguar) and I think you'll see/understand John's point!