'65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

[James W.]

The 1965 judging manual states that the '65 396 side emblem flags and front emblem flag are to be the red-orange color. At some point in time I bought a front emblem that is a GM Restoration Part with the correct color but can't remember where I bought it from. I can not locate the matching color side emblems from any of the Corvette parts vendors. Can someone tell me where I can get the correct 396 side emblems with the correct red-orange flag? I am trying to get the body finished before it goes back on the frame and I need to get the right side emblem installed before installing the heater core/fan motor cover.


Thanks,

James West

[Michael H.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

The 1965 judging manual states that the '65 396 side emblem flags and front emblem flag are to be the red-orange color. At some point in time I bought a front emblem that is a GM Restoration Part with the correct color but can't remember where I bought it from. I can not locate the matching color side emblems from any of the Corvette parts vendors. Can someone tell me where I can get the correct 396 side emblems with the correct red-orange flag? I am trying to get the body finished before it goes back on the frame and I need to get the right side emblem installed before installing the heater core/fan motor cover.


Thanks,

James West

James,

It's quite possible that the color in the side and front emblems didn't match. Something I noticed 30 years ago on the famous 3000 mile unrestored maroon 396 conv is that the side emblems were the darker maroon color while the front emblem was the correct 65 orange color.

I don't think I've ever seen an NOS side emblem that had the typical 63-65 orange color.

We know that the orange was replaced with maroon for all emblems for 66 so is it possible that the 396 emblem that was released later in the 65 model year also maroon? I'm not sure but I have a feeling it's at least possible.

Has anyone ever seen an NOS 396 emblem with orange instead of maroon?

[James W.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

Michael,

I've seen two low mileage '65 396 cars with the red-orange flag on the side emblem. They were both at the '08 NCRS National Convention where I took pictures of them. Both of these cars were in the serial number range from 16k to 18k, one car had 26,xxx miles and the other about 50k miles. Both cars were Duntov cars and one was a bowtie car. I've attached pictures of the emblems from one of the cars, both had identical emblems. The car that I am restoring is serial number 22,16x ao maybe there is the chance that the darker emblems would be correct for a car that late in production. The emblems that came off of the car had the darker red side flags, but we do know that the car had been painted from the doors forward back in the late 1970's. The front emblem removed from the car has the correct red-orange flag.

I guess my reasoning for for trying to locate the correct emblems is because the judging manual states that that it what is supposed to be correct and I chasing every point I can get. I'd rather do it correctly the first time than have to go back and do rework on the car later on. I know the judging manuals all have some items that are not always correct but until that particular section gets changed, I'm going to try to follow it to the letter.

I'm hoping to here from Wayne Midkiff and possibly a few others who have low mileage/original cars.

As always, thanks for your input.


Best Regards,

James West

[Wayne M.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

I'm hoping to here from Wayne Midkiff and possibly a few others who have low mileage/original cars.
James West

James -- my car had 50,000+ miles on as early as the fall of 1968, per photo taken of instr. panel by the then owner, who also gave me the orange nose 1/2 emblem that he'd kept after a front-end incident in 1970. I'd classify my car a good driver [30-footer].

First pic: compare orange with the red(der) 1980's GM service emblem to its left. Also included one of the side emblems off my L78. Kind'a doubt they're original, as the Turbo Jet surface is bright chrome rather than brushed.

(to Michael H.) checked my Burroughs book and from what I can see, the nose flag color matches the 396 side emblem, but neither is excessively orange. Maybe just color shift in printing.

Next thumbnail shows back of this side emblem, with both the '65 and '66 part #'s. This has always puzzled me - you'd think it'd be either one # or the other. The flag on the 396 side emblem is not as deep a red as the newer nose flag, but maybe this is just due to paint oxidation over the years. The trouble is that if you take the pictures in direct sunlight, they look different again.

3rd thumbnail is the back of the two nose flags (older orange one is at top). They both show a '65 part # (3959046) and a '66 part # (3872929). In the '65 AIM [UPC 1, Sht. F1] the nose flag is revised from the '65 # to the '66 #, effective 6-3-65. So probably your car and mine should have the '66-type emblem. Was the only difference between the two part #'s the paint shade ? Same page of AIM shows the '66-type hood emblem, which we all know was NOT used in '65 MY; does that put other info on this page in question ?

[Michael H.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

James -- my car had 50,000+ miles on as early as the fall of 1968, per photo taken of instr. panel by the then owner, who also gave me the orange nose 1/2 emblem that he'd kept after a front-end incident in 1970. I'd classify my car a good driver [30-footer].

First pic: compare orange with the red(der) 1980's GM service emblem to its left. Also included one of the side emblems off my L78. Kind'a doubt they're original, as the Turbo Jet surface is bright chrome rather than brushed.

(to Michael H.) checked my Burroughs book and from what I can see, the nose flag color matches the 396 side emblem, but neither is excessively orange. Maybe just color shift in printing.

Next thumbnail shows back of this side emblem, with both the '65 and '66 part #'s. This has always puzzled me - you'd think it'd be either one # or the other. The flag on the 396 side emblem is not as deep a red as the newer nose flag, but maybe this is just due to paint oxidation over the years. The trouble is that if you take the pictures in direct sunlight, they look different again.

3rd thumbnail is the back of the two nose flags (older orange one is at top). They both show a '65 part # (3959046) and a '66 part # (3872929). In the '65 AIM [UPC 1, Sht. F1] the nose flag is revised from the '65 # to the '66 #, effective 6-3-65. So probably your car and mine should have the '66-type emblem. Was the only difference between the two part #'s the paint shade ? Same page of AIM shows the '66-type hood emblem, which we all know was NOT used in '65 MY; does that put other info on this page in question ?

The part number change for the nose emblen was due to the color change from red/orange in 65, to dark red for 66.
The original orange 65 emblem was discontinued shortly after the 66 model arrived on the scene and service replaced with the 66 emblem.

All of the 63-65 emblems were orange until the new dark red color replaced them for 66. (or late 65) The side flag part number changed along with the color and, for some reason, both the 63-65 and 66 part numbers are cast into the 66 enblem, same as the nose emblem.

The fact that the part number for both the nose emblem and small block side flag changed before the end of the 65 MY may indicate that the dark red emblem appeared before end of 65 production.

There's also a strong possibility that the early 396 car may have had the orange color emblems and later had the maroon.

Back to the 3000 mile maroon 396 convertible that Buxbaum had about 30 years ago with maroon 396 emblems, I would definitely say that they were untouched original. The entire car was absolutely untouched. It had an orange nose emblem though.

I don't remember the VIN but I think it was in the 18,xxx range?

Also, the 3872929 nose emblem part number is definitely a late 65 part number. Too low, numerically, for SOP of 66.

[Mike M.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

my 37K mile 396, which i've owned for nearly 30 years, has the red/orange flags on its side emblems, although their color differs slightly from that of the front emblem.mike

[John D.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

I read every post on the 396 side emblems and noticed no one mentioned the shade of white for the checkered flag. I know very little about the 65 396 but as you know Michael the 63 to 65 small block cars used the '158 emblems. Orangish red on one side and ivory (instead of white) on the other side. Now the ivory is not faded white as I have seen NOS ones and originals that are definitely a shade of ivory. Rather glossy ivory. The black paint on those flags was glossy also. I wonder if a correct 396 fender emblem should have ivory instead of the pure white like in the nice photo. Like I said I am only familiar with the small block emblems from 63 to 65. Flags that we call the 158's. JD

[Keith B.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

Please see the emblem color on my 19XXX mile unrestored car. I would like to have you look at the crest compared to the other example. My emblem is much more defined. The color is more red than orange.

[James W.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

my 37K mile 396, which i've owned for nearly 30 years, has the red/orange flags on its side emblems, although their color differs slightly from that of the front emblem.mike

Hello Mike and thanks for your response to my post.

May I ask what range the serial number of your car is in 16,xxx to 20,xxx or 21,xxx to 23,xxx?


Best Regards,

James West
Omaha, NE.

[James W.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

I read every post on the 396 side emblems and noticed no one mentioned the shade of white for the checkered flag. I know very little about the 65 396 but as you know Michael the 63 to 65 small block cars used the '158 emblems. Orangish red on one side and ivory (instead of white) on the other side. Now the ivory is not faded white as I have seen NOS ones and originals that are definitely a shade of ivory. Rather glossy ivory. The black paint on those flags was glossy also. I wonder if a correct 396 fender emblem should have ivory instead of the pure white like in the nice photo. Like I said I am only familiar with the small block emblems from 63 to 65. Flags that we call the 158's. JD

John,

Thanks for you input to my original post. I guess since I'm going to the lengths to make my 396 emblems as correct as possible I'd better get the checkered flag correct also. Take a look at the pictures I posted above of the 50,xxx mile, unrestored, Duntov car I took pictures of at the '08 National Convention. Do they look like what you are describing as ivory? I'd like to see a picture of Mike's car's emblems as a comparison.


Best Regards,

James West

[James W.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

Keith,

Thanks for the pictures.


Regards,

James West

[James W.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

James -- my car had 50,000+ miles on as early as the fall of 1968, per photo taken of instr. panel by the then owner, who also gave me the orange nose 1/2 emblem that he'd kept after a front-end incident in 1970. I'd classify my car a good driver [30-footer].

First pic: compare orange with the red(der) 1980's GM service emblem to its left. Also included one of the side emblems off my L78. Kind'a doubt they're original, as the Turbo Jet surface is bright chrome rather than brushed.

(to Michael H.) checked my Burroughs book and from what I can see, the nose flag color matches the 396 side emblem, but neither is excessively orange. Maybe just color shift in printing.

Next thumbnail shows back of this side emblem, with both the '65 and '66 part #'s. This has always puzzled me - you'd think it'd be either one # or the other. The flag on the 396 side emblem is not as deep a red as the newer nose flag, but maybe this is just due to paint oxidation over the years. The trouble is that if you take the pictures in direct sunlight, they look different again.

3rd thumbnail is the back of the two nose flags (older orange one is at top). They both show a '65 part # (3959046) and a '66 part # (3872929). In the '65 AIM [UPC 1, Sht. F1] the nose flag is revised from the '65 # to the '66 #, effective 6-3-65. So probably your car and mine should have the '66-type emblem. Was the only difference between the two part #'s the paint shade ? Same page of AIM shows the '66-type hood emblem, which we all know was NOT used in '65 MY; does that put other info on this page in question ?

Wayne,

Thanks for the pictures and your input, every little bit helps!


Best Regards,

James West

[Mike M.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

our 396 roadster is vin # 2213X.its the low mile un restored 396. the coupe is a radical custom and its vin is 1850X.mike

[James W.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

So... I painted my 396 side emblems myself. I believe that I found a very close match to the original color based on color on original front emblem that came off of the car and the pictures I took of one of the low mileage cars at the '08 NCRS Natl. Convention. I installed the emblems on the car last night and think they turned out very well. The emblems on the red car are mine the emblem on the yellow car is the low mileage original.

I'd like to get your opinions please.

Best Regards,

James West

[Alan D.]

Re: '65 396 Side Emblems (Red-Orange Colored)

Great job Jim!
I looked at the reds (front emblem only) and found the newly painted one just has a little more red than original. However over time the original has naturally lost a little red to the environment so you may be back to new at this point.