C2 Power Antenna

[Richard M.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Ok, where it's stuck is the question. You said all masts go up, except the whip, so raise it up, then hold on to the mast below the whip, tap/hit the tip with a brass hammer to see if it moves at all.

Hold on to the mast with a rubber gripper, like for opening jars. No tools, just your hand.

If this fails I'll show you what I did, but this one was stuck all the way up.

Rich

[Jim D.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Rich,

No luck with the hammer. Whats next?

[Richard M.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Ok, finishing up my C6 for the Melbourne Regional tomorrow morning.

... gimme a few and when I get on the laptop shortly I'll explain with some photos.

[Richard M.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Jim, I spent about a week of occasional attempts to get the top whip down, heat, Freeze spray, penetrant.... nothing got it to budge. I had to get up on a stepladder to try to hit the tip, but the whip would just wobble around. This antenna did not run. It tried, but the entire mast set was stuck and just overloaded the motor. In order to disassemble the antenna, I had to get the cable removed. I could not because the unit was stuck extended.

In order to hit the top of the whip down into the mast, I had to support the whip somehow and prevent it from bowing outward.

It finally hit me and I came up with this idea....

I measured the length of the whip from under the tip to the top of mast 2. I then cut 2 small pieces of lumber to length of about 1/4" shorter than the above whip measurement. To make a groove in the boards, I set the depth of cut on my circular saw to just enough to capture and hold the whip in place.

20231210_174145.jpg

I predrilled holes for screws with the two boards grooves lined up, then clamped both pieces over the whip, and then screwed the boards together.
20231210_175004.jpg

I set the antenna over my bench vise and climbed my stepladder to give it some light hits with my brass hammer.
20231210_184752.jpg

Here is where the problem is though. You need to hold onto the mast below the whip. I could not as there was no room, and I didn't want to scratch it or damage it. In your case, since yours extends, you could hold onto the mast as I mentioned before.
20231210_184838.jpg

Here I show just about a 1/4" of free-play in the whip. I also opened the top hole a bit to allow the tip to go further into the clamp assembly, if it did decide to move.
20231210_184856.jpg

In my case, it worked. I hit the tip with the brass hammer and I saw movement.
20231210_184924.jpg


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After a few more taps, it moved more. I removed my clamp and I could now completely disassemble the antenna to restore it. I then pulled the cable out of the case and dove into the repair. I'll add the entire rebuild process when I get some free time.

Rich

[Jim D.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Rich,

Any luck with the entire rebuild process info?

[Dave S.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Rich,

Any luck with the entire rebuild process info?

[Robert P.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

I have been following this thread and have a question , if you have a core with a bad mast couldn't you by the repro one with the correct mast and tip and transfer it to your original lower half/motor ?
Bob Peckham

[Dave S.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

I have been following this thread and have a question , if you have a core with a bad mast couldn't you by the repro one with the correct mast and tip and transfer it to your original lower half/motor ?
Bob Peckham

[Richard M.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Dave's analysis is correct. Greg must've had a supply of core masts in his work. I suspect he also had a method to repair cables, brazing them or he had a supply or used good cables.

But....please give me a little more time. I have other priorities I must accomplish before I can properly document my work.

We've just listed our home for sale and I have much to do.

Thanks for being patient.

Rich

[Dave S.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Rich,
At this point tend to your home needs. No need to bother with this. I just wanted to keep the thread going and offer some insights into the challenge ahead. My biggest point was in the bigger picture I think many of these whips have frozen pieces of the spiral cable attached to them and may never be freed up. By buying a core with the whip extended you are likely to buy a near useless item.
There needs to be a solution out there somewhere.

[Richard M.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Dave, I'm glad you posted. My reply was just a general info post, not directed to anyone in particular, while I was outside moving stuff. I needed a break anyways.lololol

Believe me, I'd rather be in the shop than on the tractor.

Rivh

[Richard M.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Note: Edits made today, Monday 3/11. I added more information and corrected some descriptive errors and fixed a few typos.

=======
I'm adding information here with the process I used to repair a "repairable" mast assembly after I was able to free it up as shown earlier.

This original has a seized and broken cable. Unfortunately, it is not repairable.
original.jpg

Another one I had was repairable after getting the cable freed up. A week of soaking, heat, freeze, etc did not help.
Group_B_15.jpg

This process was discussed elsewhere, HERE. But in the process of freeing the cable, it dislodged a internal collar in the mast. This mast repair is outlined below.


Here I'll explain the parts of the assembly. It is actually quite complex. The mast assembly consists of several major sections.

The top solid Stainless Steel whip - This is the top section where the hexagonal tip attaches. The cable attaches to the bottom of this section and can rotate due to its attachment method. The chromed brass hexagonal tip is pressed on the end approximately 1/4".


The 3 tubular mast sections are made of chromed brass. I'll call them out as 1, 2, & 3, where 1 is the smallest diameter.

Brass tubular mast 1 - The whip is inside this top mast section. This is where the problems occur, as the cable rusts inside this section.


Brass tubular mast 2 - center mast. Mast 1 slides inside this section.


Brass tubular mast 3 - bottom mast. Mast 2 slides inside this section.

Mast 3 is specially crimped onto a pot metal tubular base, surrounded by a large plastic ring to insulate the mast assembly from the grounded gearcase.

The bottom of the whip is attached to a very thin cable, surrounded by a hardened steel circular "spring" which acts as the driven gear.
20231211_172124.jpg

It is extended or retracted by a raw steel ring gear assembly inside the main gearcase, which is connected via a rotating clutch mechanism to a plastic ring gear, which is driven by the motor worm gear.
20231211_173700.jpg Antenna_DS_Fixed_10.jpg

This metal/plastic gear assembly has 4 springs and steel balls between them which act as a rotating clutch when maximum extend/retract operations are encountered. The raw steel balls and raw steel springs were factory lubricated but can rust easily over time. If replacements balls are needed, the diameter is approximately 0.212", which is a tad less than 7/32".
Antenna_DS_Fixed_55.jpg


Repairing masts

A common failure with these original antennas is that the top stainless steel whip section will become stuck inside the first tubular section. The raw steel cable becomes rusted, which expands inside the first tubular brass mast. The reason the rust occurs is multi-fold. Water can seep down the whip, into the first mast section. It will continue down into the other sections and into the gearcase. The raw steel cables were lubricated, but time and elements deteriorate the steel cable and spring wrapped gear to a point where it becomes lodged inside the mast.

In order to disassemble the masts, cut the plastic ring and spread the joint to move it away from the locking groove in the pot metal base.
Group_5_008.jpg

The crimp can be chiseled open or can but cut using a Dremel with a cutting disk. Doing this has a drawback though. Doing this will shorten the mast slightly when reassembling, as you will re-crimp the mast to the base about 1/4" lower than original. I consider it a worthwhile deviation.
Group_5_012.jpg

Now all sections can come apart after removing the pressed on hexagonal tip with the procedure outlined earlier.
Group_5_017.jpg

For reference, the tip is pressed on approximately 1/4".
Group_5_027.jpg

Note the small brass collar at the base of the whip where the cable attaches. This is a spacer to keep mast 1 properly set above mast 2 when the assembly is retracted. In the process of freeing the whip from mast 1 by hammering on the tip using the wooden clamp block as a support structure, it dislodged this collar from mast 2. This is the reason I had to completely disassemble this mast assembly.
Group_5_018.jpg

When extended, the pronounced expanded circular section of each mast base will contact the "grooved" crimp on each mated mast when extended, preventing the mast from flying up and out of its larger diameter support mast. Also not the special hardened copper(Beryllium) spring stop flanges at the base of each mast section. The copper flanges are designed to spread outward(left side of the photo below). This will tension the mast inside its mating mast. When reassembling the sections, use a pick to spread the flanges outward a bit. If ant are broken, you can clean then solder the ends back to the mast. Originally, they were spot welded as can be seen below to the right of the photo.
Group_5_020.jpg

The small brass collar that was dislodged from mast 2 when getting the whip/stuck cable to move "vigorously", using my brass hammer, now must be reinstalled. It must be reinserted into mast 2 at a precise location and then both mast and collar are crimped with a pointed drift. A nail-set tool works well. You will notice a "telltale" crimp(tip of screwdriver) in the expanded section of mast 2. This is where the collar needs to be repositioned to and then firmly set. There may be a coinciding crimp in the collar from original assembly.
Group_5_023.jpg

Another view of crimp at pointer.
Group_5_032.jpg

Collar at end of mast 1 for reference.
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This is the approximate measurement of the mast 1 extension above mast 2.
Group_5_026.jpg

At the crimp, measure the depth required to position the collar in its proper position.
Group_5_033.jpg

IMPORTANT - Install mast 1 into mast 2 first. Extend mast 1 a few inches.
Push the collar into mast 2 the measured depth. Position the collar so that its mating crimp is aligned properly, then re-peen the crimp to hold it in position.
Group_5_030.jpg

When collar is set, this is what it should look like. Mast 1 should measure approximately 3/4" above mast 2. The added collar stops mast 1 in the right place.
Group_5_031.jpg


Assembly
After a thorough cleaning of all of the internals of the masts and cable, you can now reassemble the masts. Whip/cable assembly first. A light coating of lubricant should be applied. I use CRC Powerlube for this. Just a small amount. I use a moderate amount of grease on the cable just on the mast 1 length. More will be added later when reinstalled in the gearcase.

After the whip/cable & masts are assembled. Place the pot metal base into the mast assembly. You will have to pass the cable through the pot metal base.

Photos below show a pre-assembly mast 3 to base test. You may have to dress the mast and the base a bit for proper fit.
Group_5_035.jpgGroup_5_036.jpg


After the 3 masts are together cable is threaded through the base, support the mast in a padded vice and crimp the perimeter with your pointed drift.
Group_5_047.jpg

Reattach the plastic collar to the base. You'll need to pry it open a bit with a tool to get it past the locking groove in the base. Note that it can be installed either way on the base as the groove is centered in the plastic ring.
Group_5_049.jpg

You can give it a squeeze in a vice to help reform its shape, if needed. Note that this plastic ring is not a very tight fit on the mast base. This allows the base mast(mast 3) to actually rotate slightly after final assembly. This is not a issue as the cable is not locked into the whip and by design the cable can rotate also in the gearcase assembly. Everything can rotate.
Group_5_050.jpg

Re-solder the main lead wire to the mast.
Group_5_051.jpg

This is what you should see after all is back together, proper section spacing between masts.
Group_5_053.jpg

Reassemble the repaired mast assembly to the gearcase as outlined in previous steps.

Group_5_054.jpg

Note that some masts will be unrepairable. Until we find the supplier who made them for Greg, we will need to try to salvage any that are not beyond repair.

Rich

[Dave S.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Rich,
Amazing tutorial. You have answered virtually every question relative to the complete restoration of these antennas. Now just to find an antenna supplier.

[Richard M.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Thanks Dave. I hope we can get better at this.
Rich

P.S. To those subscribed.....Note that I've made edits to post 27 to correct some errors and add more information.

[Gary B.]

Re: C2 Power Antenna

Rich,

Any ideas about a source for the amber, plastic coating for the motor/gearbox?

Gary