1963 Oil Pump Test

[Troy S.]

Soliciting opinions if I have an oil flow problem, specifically for intakes on #1 and #2.

Performed an oil pump test on my 1963 360HP engine using an oil pump primer tool and 10 amp high speed drill.

Followed directions for the oil pump test per the advice from many on this forum. Oil pump is standard Melling pump, non-high volume. Pre-filled oil filter canister then added the rest of the oil (Shell Rotella T5 15W-40) in the main block. Dip stick says full. Removed all spark plugs. Operated high speed drill for 5 minutes on each quarter rotation of the crank shaft. Started at TDC and went two full rotations on the crank shaft. Actually performed the test twice. Even leveled off the engine by jacking up the rear to ensure oil could flow freely in the oil galley as my garage is on a slight angle.

Getting great oil pressure (see pic #1) and lots of oil flowing in the galley. Oil is flowing well into and out of all lifters and waterfalling to the rockers with the exception of intakes #1 and #2 (and initially on intake #3), where no oil was initially flowing into these rockers. I just recently installed new lifters (Sealed Power AT-992) but the pushrods and rockers were not replaced as I inspected them and there was no visible wear. Note: I just ordered a new set of GM #14095256 pushrods in case they were needed.

Thinking there may be some issue with the installed lifters from #1, #2 and #3, I replaced them with new Sealed Power lifters and re-examined the push rods. Noticed there was some oil coming up through #1, #2 and #3 intake pushrods but obviously not all the way. Re-ran the test. Oil on #3 started to flow oil onto the rocker. #1 and #2 started to trickle oil on their rockers but still not flowing freely like the others (see pics 2 and 3).

Considering the garage temp is 50 degrees, viscosity of new oil and drawbacks of the oil pump test not providing enough oil flow, do I have a potential blockage issue with oil getting to #1 and #2 intake rockers? Did I not run the test long enough? Any other thoughts on increasing oil flow without tearing into the engine (i.e., additive, cleaning process, etc) or should I assume this is normal and move on.

Thank you in advance for your help.
-Troy

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 Oil Pump Test

Soliciting opinions if I have an oil flow problem, specifically for intakes on #1 and #2.

Performed an oil pump test on my 1963 360HP engine using an oil pump primer tool and 10 amp high speed drill.

Followed directions for the oil pump test per the advice from many on this forum. Oil pump is standard Melling pump, non-high volume. Pre-filled oil filter canister then added the rest of the oil (Shell Rotella T5 15W-40) in the main block. Dip stick says full. Removed all spark plugs. Operated high speed drill for 5 minutes on each quarter rotation of the crank shaft. Started at TDC and went two full rotations on the crank shaft. Actually performed the test twice. Even leveled off the engine by jacking up the rear to ensure oil could flow freely in the oil galley as my garage is on a slight angle.

Getting great oil pressure (see pic #1) and lots of oil flowing in the galley. Oil is flowing well into and out of all lifters and waterfalling to the rockers with the exception of intakes #1 and #2 (and initially on intake #3), where no oil was initially flowing into these rockers. I just recently installed new lifters (Sealed Power AT-992) but the pushrods and rockers were not replaced as I inspected them and there was no visible wear. Note: I just ordered a new set of GM #14095256 pushrods in case they were needed.

Thinking there may be some issue with the installed lifters from #1, #2 and #3, I replaced them with new Sealed Power lifters and re-examined the push rods. Noticed there was some oil coming up through #1, #2 and #3 intake pushrods but obviously not all the way. Re-ran the test. Oil on #3 started to flow oil onto the rocker. #1 and #2 started to trickle oil on their rockers but still not flowing freely like the others (see pics 2 and 3).

Considering the garage temp is 50 degrees, viscosity of new oil and drawbacks of the oil pump test not providing enough oil flow, do I have a potential blockage issue with oil getting to #1 and #2 intake rockers? Did I not run the test long enough? Any other thoughts on increasing oil flow without tearing into the engine (i.e., additive, cleaning process, etc) or should I assume this is normal and move on.

Thank you in advance for your help.
-Troy

Troy------

It sounds to me like you have done about everything to ensure your valve train components are right. It's very hard to believe that you have ended up with successive failed lifters, especially since mechanical lifters are about as simple as a lifter could be. However, did you run a wire through the pushrods to ensure they are clear? Otherwise, I expect the "problem" is that your test does not actually simulate the full dynamics of a running engine. At this point, I think I'd try actually starting the engine and immediately thereafter observe oil flow from the rockers in question. If the problem continues, shut the engine down and proceed with more troubleshooting.

By the way, and although I do not think it's related to your problem, the AT-992 lifters are not the type originally used for small blocks. The AT-992 are "piddle valve" type lifters. Small blocks used edge orifice lifters. However, usually the problem with using piddle valve lifters in a small block is that they deliver too much oil to the rocker arms, flooding the under valve cover area of the heads.

[Troy S.]

Re: 1963 Oil Pump Test

Thank you for the response! Really appreciate the help.





There was some good information on this forum on piddle vs. edge orifice. Also found an interesting article were John Hinckley was quoted.


https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...lock-camshaft/


Sounds like the edge orifice lifters were used to restrict oil at the top end so the main was not starved for oil at higher sustained RPMs.





-Troy

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 Oil Pump Test

Thank you for the response! Really appreciate the help.


I did not run a wire through the pushrods, rather I held them up to the light and could clearly see there were no blockages - bores were open and smooth inside. I have a new set of GM #14095256 pushrods on the way so perhaps I just swap them out. I’ll check them first.


There was some good information on this forum on piddle vs. edge orifice. Also found an interesting article were John Hinckley was quoted.


https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...lock-camshaft/


Sounds like the edge orifice lifters were used to restrict oil at the top end so the main was not starved for oil at higher sustained RPMs.


Looks like few manufacturers now make edge orifice lifters - noticed Crowler/Holden and Howards Cams were two manufactures. Given I’m concerned with oil flow at the top end, I’m going to stay with the AT-992s (also have a set of Comp Cam 813-16s) but be diligent with the oil level unless there are other downsides. I’ll monitor the oil flow as suggested when the car gets running. Thanks again for the quick response.


-Troy

Troy------


I think you will find that the 14095256 pushrods are welded ball style, although I have seen them both ways. Don't let the welded ball type throw you, though. The welded ball type are excellent pushrods. In fact, virtually all later small blocks, including Gen III, Gen IV, and Gen 5 are equipped with welded ball type pushrods.

[Michael H.]

Re: 1963 Oil Pump Test

I would think it might help if the engine or the oil was heated up and then run your test.

Mike

[John D.]

Re: 1963 Oil Pump Test

Joe,The Federal Mogul AT992 seem to work fine . I recommend that all the time along with the CS113R solid lifter cam (097) or the CS118R (3030 cam) for many years with no issues or complaints. But I appreciate your imput on your favorite lifters. John

[Joe R.]

Re: 1963 Oil Pump Test

One of the problems faced with low oil pressure and no oiling to the lifters and rockers away from the oil pump is worn cam bearings. If you didn't install new cam bearings upon rebuilding the motor you should consider looking into the possibility the cam bearing are worn out or installed incorrectly.

JR

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 Oil Pump Test

Joe,The Federal Mogul AT992 seem to work fine . I recommend that all the time along with the CS113R solid lifter cam (097) or the CS118R (3030 cam) for many years with no issues or complaints. But I appreciate your imput on your favorite lifters. John

John------


They pretty much have to be OK if one is using mechanical lifters. I do not know of any edge orifice lifters currently being manufactured.

[Troy S.]

Re: 1963 Oil Pump Test

As a follow up, I switched out all lifters with new Comp Cam lifters and also installed new NOS 14095256 push rods. Did the test again and had oil flowing onto all rockers! Used a heater pointed to the oil pan. Recorded oil temp of 74 degrees.


Not sure if the raised oil temp was the variable, but pleased with the end result.


Really appreciated all the help!
-Troy

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 Oil Pump Test

As a follow up, I switched out all lifters with new Comp Cam lifters and also installed new NOS 14095256 push rods. Did the test again and had oil flowing onto all rockers! Used a heater pointed to the oil pan. Recorded oil temp of 74 degrees.


Not sure if the raised oil temp was the variable, but pleased with the end result.


Really appreciated all the help!
-Troy

Troy------


The change of the lifters and pushrods should not affect oil temperature.

Were the GM #14095256 pushrods you installed welded ball type or "1 piece" design?

[Troy S.]

Re: 1963 Oil Pump Test

For the first test, it was pretty cold in the garage. Brand new oil. Thought by increasing temp it may improve oil flow from the valley through the lifters and push rods to the rocker arms.


Attached are pictures of the NOS push rod. Look welded to me but I may be incorrect.


-Troy
6784ADE9-28F0-466C-A3FE-787152FE4C38.jpeg
C5212C31-AE41-4DA4-9508-3F730865EAE5.jpg
1394B042-6F88-4A5F-8BB5-8C1EFAE6696C.jpg

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 Oil Pump Test

Troy------


Yes, these are welded ball pushrods. These are the design that the GM #14095256 are supposed to be. I have seen some "1 piece" design pushrods that were purported to be 14095256 but I actually doubt they were.

These are excellent pushrods and replaced the original GM #3796243 pushrods in June, 1984. They were used in PRODUCTION for 1984-86 Corvette engines. All subsequent Corvette engines (except, of course, 1990-95 LT5) have used welded ball design pushrods.