St. Louis vin stamping

[Mark M.]

Does anyone know if the St. Louis assembly line during the 60's and 70's use the same gang stamp (on engine pad and trany) changing the vin # for each car in a row? Or did they use a number of stamp holders, in a rotation? One would guess that a production line would have more than one tool on hand for such an important step on the line. How they used the tools could probably only be answered by someone who was there to see it.This knowledge could shed light on typical or different fonts for each number or letter used in different windows of time (other cars built same day, week). Accurate data bases would reflect these line practices . Any help understanding real line practices would be appreciated. Mark

[Richard M.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

Mark,

John Hinckley and others will likely have some answers. IIRC, it is understood that the engine vin and transmission, along with the FI Plenums, if equipped with FI, were stamped using the same gang holder at the same time. It makes sense that there were multiple holders, but John or someone here may shed light on that. It's a good question that may not have come up before.

He posted this photo some time ago regarding the various fonts used. I also did a reverse image to show how the characters look after stamping.

Rich

GangHolderDies800.JPGGangHolderDies800Mirror.jpg

[Page C.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

The photo that Rich posted above is from the engine assembly plant. The vin engine stamp at St. Louis used appears be one holder and the last number or numbers in the set was changed as each car passed that station. The proof of this is the errors in some of the cars we have seen appear in appear in the batch on 10 cars, 100 cars or 1000 cars depending on were the error in the stamp was made.

[Richard M.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

Page,

Good catch. Sorry about the confusion Mark.

Rich

[Mike E.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

The proof of this is the errors in some of the cars we have seen appear in appear in the batch on 10 cars, 100 cars or 1000 cars depending on were the error in the stamp was made.

Here is an example of one of those errors from an engine/gearbox combo that was for sale on Ebay a year or so ago. One interesting thing too about this one is sometime in 1965 St. Louis I think changed from the year (5) as the first character on the transmission stamp to the plant code (S) for St. Louis. Obviously in this example that did not happen, or perhaps the guy stamping was having a really bad day.





Mike

[Page C.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

Nice photo Mike,
Here's the next one in line.194375s1 15982 T0410 IF.jpg

[Mike E.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

Nice photo Mike,
Here's the next one in line.[ATTACH=CONFIG]59155[/ATTACH]

And a 396 no less...I'll bet the poor guy that stamped those never imagined we would notice his f-up half a century later.

Edit...WOW 15982 has a very interesting past.



Miike

[Bill W.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

15982 was a Red / Red St Louis built coupe with F40 & tele owned by pro team at one time . If anyone has more info on it send me a E mail .

[Keith W.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

Mark,

John Hinckley and others will likely have some answers. IIRC, it is understood that the engine vin and transmission, along with the FI Plenums, if equipped with FI, were stamped using the same gang holder at the same time. It makes sense that there were multiple holders, but John or someone here may shed light on that. It's a good question that may not have come up before.

He posted this photo some time ago regarding the various fonts used. I also did a reverse image to show how the characters look after stamping.

Rich

[ATTACH=CONFIG]59131[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]59132[/ATTACH]

Rich thanks for putting the stamps up, didn't realise how much difference there was with the same stamp, the 0 , 5 , 3 in fact most of them, I notice there's only one nine am sure I've seen pads where the nine was used upside down for a 6 or maybe its just age thanks again

[John H.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

Only one gang holder was used for both the engine and transmission in '63, '64, and part way into '65; during this period, the engine and the transmission VIN derivative stampings were identical, with the first digit being the model year, followed by the last six digits of the car's VIN. In November '64, the transmission VIN changed - the first model year digit changed to an "S" (S123456), so there were TWO different gang holders - one for the engine, and one for the transmission.

The transmission VIN format changed again in 1966, adding a "6" prefix for the model year to the previous Sxxxxxx (example: 6S123456). Note: The transmission gang holder was used occasionally on the engine within the first 400 units, as known-original cars have been observed with a "6S" prefix on the engine VIN instead of just a "6" prefix (I have photos of such a pad on #183, found at a Chapter tech session on Bowtie Judging of an original-owner '66 300hp convertible).

The '66 transmission VIN format carried over into 1967, and those transmissions used "7S123456"; again, different gang holders used for engine and transmission. The engine VIN derivative stayed the same from '63-'67; it always had the model year as the first digit, followed by the last six of the VIN (except for a few early 66's).

Photo below (from Mike Hanson) shows the original St. Louis VIN stamp gang holder, sitting on the bins for the dies; note the quick-change spring retainer pin that held the dies in place.


Stamper3.jpg

[Wayne M.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

........ In November '64, the transmission VIN changed - the first model year digit changed to an "S" (S123456), so there were TWO different gang holders - one for the engine, and one for the transmission........

Here's both trans stamp versions on the 62nd car off the line (probably) on the day the strike was over (Nov 6 trim tag: D6 S280 coupe). I've seen earlier cars with a (larger font) "S" over-stamping the "5" on the trans.




c

[Dennis C.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

Photo below (from Mike Hanson) shows the original St. Louis VIN stamp gang holder, sitting on the bins for the dies; note the quick-change spring retainer pin that held the dies in place.


[ATTACH=CONFIG]59170[/ATTACH]

John,

I found your information extremely interesting. One follow up question -

When you say "original VIN stamp gang holder", are you talking about starting in 1963, or would this photo represent the holder used for C1's?

Thanks,

Dennis

[John H.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

John,

I found your information extremely interesting. One follow up question -

When you say "original VIN stamp gang holder", are you talking about starting in 1963, or would this photo represent the holder used for C1's?

Thanks,

Dennis

Dennis -

That gang holder would be typical of those used beginning in late 1960, when the VIN stamping operation changed from using individual character dies to using a gang holder.

[Dennis C.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

Thanks John!

[David D.]

Re: St. Louis vin stamping

I always remember the words of Phil Hawkins speaking at Joplin NCRS
Meet many, many years ago - "We didn't know we were building blanking
Classics, we were just putting groceries on the table"!