Paint questions before Regional judging

[Jeffrey G.]

Hi,
I'm working on last minute details for Marlborough Regional judging, I have a few questions about fasteners and exhaust system blackout.

1.) What color should the rear valence panel attaching bolts (behind the bumpers) be?

2.) What color should the phillips screws (front and sides) that hold the headlight bezels to the buckets be?

3.) Do the rear bumper bolts use washers and lock washers or just washers? If thery use washers is there anything special about the washers (extra thin, thick, etc)?

4.) What areas of the underbody exhaust system should have blackout?

Any pictures of original rear valence bolts, headlight bezels screw, bumper bolts/washers or acceptable exhaust blackout would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

[John H.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

Hi,
I'm working on last minute details for Marlborough Regional judging, I have a few questions about fasteners and exhaust system blackout.

1.) What color should the rear valence panel attaching bolts (behind the bumpers) be?

2.) What color should the phillips screws (front and sides) that hold the headlight bezels to the buckets be?

3.) Do the rear bumper bolts use washers and lock washers or just washers? If thery use washers is there anything special about the washers (extra thin, thick, etc)?

4.) What areas of the underbody exhaust system should have blackout?

Any pictures of original rear valence bolts, headlight bezels screw, bumper bolts/washers or acceptable exhaust blackout would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

Jeff -

1. Zinc (as described in the JG)

2. Zinc (as described in the JG)

3. Flat and lock washers - see UPC 14, sheet B1 in the A.I.M.

4. Outboard sides and rear of the mufflers.

[Alan D.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

Think I can help with "rear valence panel attaching bolts" - they are unpainted except the two behind the plate which nobody can see.
Note I have a 64 however do not believe that the painting method changed over the C2 run. Do believe the head markings are different although. Other item may be different for 67 so nothing to say.
PS - remember only 5 Gals of gas allowed in tank. (I need to take a drive now before rain) Good Luck.

[Jeffrey G.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

Jeff -

1. Zinc (as described in the JG)

2. Zinc (as described in the JG)

3. Flat and lock washers - see UPC 14, sheet B1 in the A.I.M.

4. Outboard sides and rear of the mufflers.

John,
Thank you for replying. When you say Zinc on the rear valence and headlight bezel fasteners, I think you mean like a dull plated silver color. If so, do you think these parts were painted off the car, then assembled as the car wnet down the line?
Thanks again, Jeff

[John H.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

John,
Thank you for replying. When you say Zinc on the rear valence and headlight bezel fasteners, I think you mean like a dull plated silver color. If so, do you think these parts were painted off the car, then assembled as the car wnet down the line?
Thanks again, Jeff

Jeff -

The headlamp bezels were painted lying on the floor of the car, and were installed much later on, after the headlamps and wiring harness were assembled to the buckets. The rear valance panel was temporarily attached to the body through the Paint Shop with one screw on each side; it was then removed, the exhaust bezels were attached on the bench, and it was re-installed on the Final Line after Body Drop.

Zinc-plated fasteners are silver, vs. black or dark gray for phosphated fasteners.

[Dan H.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

Think I can help with "rear valence panel attaching bolts" - they are unpainted except the two behind the plate which nobody can see.
Note I have a 64 however do not believe that the painting method changed over the C2 run. Do believe the head markings are different although. Other item may be different for 67 so nothing to say.
PS - remember only 5 Gals of gas allowed in tank. (I need to take a drive now before rain) Good Luck.

Alan, got to ask, why would the two bolts behind the license plate be body color? Weren't the paint booth bolts removed and new bolts installed upon rear panel assembly after the body drop?
Dan

[Alan D.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

First, I do not have definitive answer to that question however as John mentioned two bolts got painted while holding the panel.
Now we can assume that these 2 bolts were re-used OR tossed and all new one's used?

My quess would be GM re-used the painted ones. If the line men (oh person to be PC) took the painted panel off just before it was installed for good those two screws would be in their hand and available for use. Besides do you realize the cost of those screws! (only kidding here)

Maybe John can set us straight.

[Dan H.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

Alan, the reason I ask is when I took my Saddle/Saddle 64 Coupe apart, there was a clear outline of the 'tabs' with the bolt holes in them which was raw behind the tabs and also the ones behind where the license would go. My question would be if only 2 bolts were used, why did it make such a nice full contact pattern of the whole lower panel? I was under the imptression the panel was removed and installed way later so any paint booth bolts would have long since been removed and 'recycled'? My guess would be at least 4 bolts were used at the paint booth, all new ones put in later. But I wasn't there!
Dan

[Jeffrey G.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

Thank you to all who responded!
I'm hung up on those valence bolts too. I bought a vlaence panel bolt set from LIC and they are black phosphate.
In a past Chapter judging of this car a judge noted that the bolts should be black (mine were painted body color), so I was thinking the LIC bolts are correct. However, John says they should be Zinc, perhaps the assembly line used both black and zinc fasteners?

[Rich P.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

Jeff,

The rear valance bolts (8 upper EL, ELH large washer bolts) are always silver. I am the first person to have an open mind about assembly line annomalies but in this case I have never seen a black phosphate EL, ELH bolt for this application. Check the label on the bag and see if it is for the lower side sections, that would have 2 bolts and 2 nuts. LICS sometimes supplies these in black phosphate but not the uppers. ( I have seen IM and SEMS headmarking bolts used here on 63-64's now that bolt coming from another supplier, could it have been black??? I have not seen an unrestored car with black bolts though)

Rich

[Dan H.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

Rich, agree about zinc plated bolts, never saw one otherwise. I found another picture of my 64 Coupe and it showed the bottom rear panel off the car with the 6 outboard bolts/washer areas as being raw under them. The 2 bolt areas where the license plate went were painted, didn't have bolts in them when the panel was sprayed. This might not be common but on this particular Coupe, sn 8477, the rear panel was painted with 6 of the 8 bolts in place. Must have been a new guy on the line that day?
Dan

[William D.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

I bought my bolts from LIC they are definitely zinc plated. See you in Marlboro.

Bill

[Alan D.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

Well here are some of the 64 bolts which were only for 64 (Think we discussed these by looking at 63,64, & 65 AIM) Note these are black or close to black, at least on my Mar64 car.

Wanted to show the two bottom screws which never appear to be correct, but usually never looked at.

[Dan H.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

Well here are some of the 64 bolts which were only for 64 (Think we discussed these by looking at 63,64, & 65 AIM) Note these are black or close to black, at least on my Mar64 car.

Wanted to show the two bottom screws which never appear to be correct, but usually never looked at.

Thanks Alan, found the 2 bolts in my 'where the heck did these go' box! AIM also shows a plate washer under the bolts 'built in' lock washer, do you have a size for that?
Dan

[Thomas N.]

Re: Paint questions before Regional judging

Hi:
Here are a few pictures of a couple of original Duntov cars. Hope these help.