wiped out cam

**Duke W.** · January 6, 2009, 07:14 PM

Re: wiped out cam

What is the camshaft mfg/part no.-duration and lift specs?

...mfg/part no. of the lifters?

Same question for the valve springs, plus what are their specs?

Duke

**Walter R.** · January 6, 2009, 07:28 PM

Re: wiped out cam

I wish Icould give answer. The machine shop that I purchased cam from and did engine prep is out of business. The hydraulic lifters I purchased from NAPA. The original cam was a solid cam and I let the machine shop know that I needed a hyd. cam and wanted a cam as close to original specs as possible. I gave them specs when I purchased. This was over a year ago and my memory is older than my car. I could get a part number off of the cam I suppose. If they sold solid cam could this have been culprit? THANKS.

**Dennis C.** · January 6, 2009, 07:39 PM

wiped out cam

I feel bad about your present situation. However, given what you have stated, it probably makes no difference what did or did not happen or what parts were in the engine.

You need to find a real engine builder and start over.

Best wishes, Dennis

**Tom H.** · January 6, 2009, 07:54 PM

Re: wiped out cam

Since I've seen this show myself......... don't ask. What brand and weight of oil were you using ?

**Walter R.** · January 6, 2009, 08:14 PM

Re: wiped out cam

havoline 10w30

**Joseph K.** · January 6, 2009, 08:21 PM

Re: wiped out cam

For new cams and lifters there is a special lub that is to be used during installation. Also it is highly recommended that just prior to starting a newly rebuilt engine to drive the oil pump with a old distributor shaft to pump oil through out the engine. But if the special lub is not use on the new cam this could be the reason your cam wore out so soon. Also there could have been a mis match of the cam and the lifters.

Joe

**Tom H.** · January 6, 2009, 08:27 PM

Re: wiped out cam

Might try Shell Rotella or a comparable oil next time. Do a search on oils and cam failures. You'll be able to read for hours.

**Duke W.** · January 6, 2009, 08:56 PM

Re: wiped out cam

Cam failures can be either due to poor workmanship or incorrect parts. Most go to extremes with "cam breakin" - a breakin grease on the lobes and lifters, a can of EOS, and as anyone who reads this TDB or The Corvette Restorer knows - any brand of CJ-4 oil, which doesn't include Havoline 10W-30. It's a S-category oil.

Another cause of lobe failure is an aftermarket "racing cam" with overly aggressive lobe dynamics in combination with "gorilla valvesprings" or just the "gorilla valvesprings" with an OE cam. I'm amazed how many "engine builders" use overly aggressive valve springs with OE cams.

Carefully set up OE springs will allow an OE hydraulic lifter cam to rev to over 6000 and over 7000 with OE mechanical lifter cams. Whether the engine makes usable power to those levels is another matter.

Here's how cams were broken in when new:

1. The engine was "hot fired" at the engine plant for about 30 seconds. If it passed it was shipped to the plant.

2. At the end of the line the engine was started, run through the roll test and driven to the shipping lot. It spent most of it's time idling.

3. Over the next 30-90 days it was started dozens of time and jockeyed around for shipping and on the dealer's lot. Most of this run time was at idle, and the engine rarely reached full operating temperature.

4. It was delivered to a retail customer.

The fact of the matter is that an OE cam and valvetrain doesn't really need a "cam breakin", but doing such will certainly ensure longevity it you use OE or OE equivalent parts from Tier One vendors.

Never simply give your engine to an "engine builder" and let him make all the decisions. Specifiy the exact mfg/part number of every new part. They've been listed/discussed here a million times, and virtually everthing is listed in online catalogs.

Duke

**Steven B.** · January 6, 2009, 09:12 PM

Re: wiped out cam

Duke, question on Kendall GT-1 oil (remember that?). My local Chevy Shop installed a new '097 and lifters in my 283 in the late 60's. STP was used to coat the lobes/lifters/bearings as I recall. Oil used was GT-1. Went through 2 cams in about a year and a half using same scenario. Did the GT-1 lack additives? I think I once heard the old racing oil was not meant to be run that long (as "Regular"/"Street" oil).

Thanks!

Steve

**Duke W.** · January 7, 2009, 12:08 AM

Re: wiped out cam

I have no idea what the formulation of the oil you mention is - nor do I know what API spec it met, or even if it was formulated to an API spec...

A Duntov cam with OE valve springs should not have suffered any damage with whatever API spec(s) were current then, which I think were MS and DG. The current S and C convention did not go into effect until circa 1970. Most popular brands back then were "dual rated" and met both the spark (MS) and compression ignition (DG) engine specs of the era.

Duke

**Michael H.** · January 7, 2009, 03:51 AM

Re: wiped out cam

Originally posted by Walter Rowe (49838)

BB rebuilt with new hydraulic lifters and cam (purchased from machine shop that did engine work). On start up had problems getting engine to run smoothly. Diagnosed a vacume leak due to warped intake. Repairs made and could not get engine to run properly. Quite a bit of idling time but under 1 hour and did best to keep RPMS up due to new cam. Could not get engine to run properly and finally engine failed completely. Removed intake with several lifters 2/3 of original height and many cam lobes wiped out. Engine failed when one lifter broke and droped down sticking the cam and breaking it into three pieces. Other than that engine doing great. What possible could have caused all this with less than 45 minutes of running time.

Walter, Just curious, were the rocker arms getting a lot of oil?

**Timothy B.** · January 7, 2009, 04:35 AM

Re: wiped out cam

Walter.

Could be lots of causes but I think no oil to lifters. Has to be something extreme for cam to brake into three pieces. Agree with Dennis, remove engine and start over with complete tear down. Metal particles everywhere at this point.

**Joel T.** · January 7, 2009, 05:14 AM

Re: wiped out cam

Originally posted by Walter Rowe (49838)

BB rebuilt with new hydraulic lifters and cam (purchased from machine shop that did engine work). On start up had problems getting engine to run smoothly. Diagnosed a vacume leak due to warped intake. Repairs made and could not get engine to run properly. Quite a bit of idling time but under 1 hour and did best to keep RPMS up due to new cam. Could not get engine to run properly and finally engine failed completely. Removed intake with several lifters 2/3 of original height and many cam lobes wiped out. Engine failed when one lifter broke and droped down sticking the cam and breaking it into three pieces. Other than that engine doing great. What possible could have caused all this with less than 45 minutes of running time.

Walter;

Had a very similar problem with my 1963 SB using a new Competition Cams solid lifter set up as part of a complete rebuild. One lobe was basically worn down so as to have basically zero lift with two others not far behind. Everything was prepped with assembly lube. While we never did find out what the cause was, it appeared that the lifters effected failed to rotate upon initial start up and this was never caught.. We just did a complete tear down and started all over. There were metal particles all over which did damage to bearings, etc..

One other comment.. Make sure that the machine shop you are using is familiar with vintage engine rebuilding. The guy I used did racing motors as a mainstay and was not totally in tune with some of the issues associated with things like this. Cost me considerable time and money truth be told. Next time I will seek out someone who specializes in vintage motor rebuilding.

Good luck!

Joel

**Tom L.** · January 7, 2009, 07:55 AM

Re: wiped out cam

I am close friends with an engine builder here in NY and he has been telling me these stories for the last 5 years or so. It happens to engunes he has done all work on including assembly as well as engines he has only done the machine work on. All the cam and lifter vendors seem to be pointing the finger at someone else and there is not a conclusive answer (aside from going roller all the way). If you subscribe to Corvette Enthusiast, they published part 2 of a 2 part article on engine oil and it's relation to flat tappet cam failures over the last 5 years or so. Too much to comment on here but it is a good read and may either answer a lot of questions or scare those with flat tappet engines.

wiped out cam

wiped out cam

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