L84 Air Filter Element

[Larry M.]

Does anyone make a one peice conical air filter element to fit a 64 fuelie. I know Corvette Central is selling a K&N for $130 which I suspect is a proprietary product for them. Was hoping to find something less costly. I could just buy the repro A163C foam but i think I's like to go more modern if anyone makes such a thing.

As an aside, if I do decide to go foam, is there a downside in buying an NOS A163C. One, I'm concerned about degradation even sitting in a box for a long time. Second, I'm wondering if oiling the foam is really necessary. What is the downside of not oiling the foam?

[Blake W.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

Larry, Look at a Wix #46418. I think it fits late model Ford or Chevrolet SUV's. Fits the FI canister very well. Blake

[Mike M.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

the case of nos a163c i've had for 30 years are junk. touch them and they disintegrate. mike

[Alan D.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

That subject has been recently discussed. I use a K&N RX-3990 Cone Product Style: Round Tapered Universal Air Filter
Others have some good elements, so see
Paper element for 63-65 fuelies?

[John D.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

I agree with Dr. Mike. Don't get taken by buying NOS 63 to 65 AC elements. They are about history. I pitched 4 recently.
They are oil impregnated and with aging they fall apart. You haven't lived until you do a full blown resto on a customers FI only to get it back and have to take it apart to clean up a big mess because of a junk element. Whew!!!
I think I would to what Blake said. Buy a 6418 or 46418 at NAPA, etc. 20 buks or so. Put your screen on the shelf. JD.

[Doug Y.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

I also agree with John D & Mike. I recently deep sixed 5 A163C filters still in original plastic bags w/oil. They were junk, just collapsed when opened.

[Duke W.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

K & N air filters do not filter as well as modern cellulose, so avoid them unless you think a "dirt hone" is good for your engine. They are overhyped, overpriced JUNK!

The Ford truck filter part number has been posted here several times previously, and I expect is the same as mentioned in post #2.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

All------


As others have described, the type of foam rubber used for the A 163C is EXTREMELY susceptible to age-related deterioration. I have several other NOS parts that were manufactured of the same sort of material. ALL have degraded to a state of complete non-usability over time. If I saw an NOS AC A163C for sale for a dollar I wouldn't buy it.

[Duke W.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

I have a buddy up in Campbell, Mark Schwartz, who owns a high end restoration shop - everything from vintage muscle cars to vintage Ferraris and other exotics. He owns a number of vintage Chevies including an fully prepared Cosworth Vega that nearly won a SCCA B-sedan national championship back in the eighties, but it now has a ZL-1 big block in place of the prepared two-liter CV engine (290 gross HP @ 9000 revs).

For years he's has a complete NOS Z-28 2 x 4 setup including the air cleaners and polyurethane foam seals to the hood. Of course the polyurethane seals disintegrated in the bag.

My '88 Mercedes 190E 2.6 five-speed has a polyurethane acoustical hood pad that I had to replace back in the late ninties, and of course, this one in now completely disintegrated even though the car has only seen an average of about 1000 miles per year since then. I haven't decided whether or not I will replace it again because I know what will happen in about ten years.

I'd like to punch the guy who invented this material and sold it to the auto industry.

Duke

[Dan H.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

Duke, wonder what the repro foam L84 elements are made of?
Dan

[Larry M.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

This was an old thread I started that I hadn't thought would come up again but someone read it and responded so it is getting new life.

Based on advise here I bought the Wix mentioned above. In some other post it was discussed that someone glues a plastic pipe to the front of the Wix to get the right length. I may do this but up to now it fits so tight this doesn't seem totally necessary. I did buy a foam repro, just to waste money I think, but know that they come without oil. If used this way they'd likely last a long time although I don't know if they would filter as well as intended.

[Duke W.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

Duke, wonder what the repro foam L84 elements are made of?
Dan

I think the material is of a general classification "polyurethane", but there are at least two major types, open and closed cell. Obviously a filter would need to be open cell to allow air to pass, and closed cell is commonly used for insulation, like the liquid spray cans that expand to a closed cell structure to fill voids and cracks in home construction.

Heat accelerates deterioation (hood pads, filter elements), but even if carefully stored in sealed bags at moderate temperature the stuff disintegrates into a sticky goo in 10-15 years.

The butt joint of the OE foam element on my 340 HP engine broke while I was cleaning it in 1968 at about 60K miles, and the replacement I bought from a dealer was the A353C. When I disassembled the engine at 115K miles the only measureable wear was in the cylinder bores. Two were worn .005" at the top and the rest were .003". The crankshaft measured right in the middle of the OE dimension range, the Morraine 400 bearings looked virtually new, and even the old Duntov cam was in spec, but probably had an average of about .001" wear over the nose.

The only serious problem was a crack at the bolt seat of the #7 conn. rod, which is why I took the engine apart. I knew those early 327 rods were weak, and who knows, the next time I took an excursion to 6500 it may have let go. My Magnaflux guy took me back in the shop, ran the test, which clearly showed the crack clear across the bolt seat and said I was "real luckly". I took a deep breathe and congratulated myself for the decision to tear down the engine even though it ran very strong (it was pretty much a dead heat between me and the handful of FI cars I faced off against in rolling starts over the years) and had about the same oil consumption - about a quart every 1500 - as when new.

I attribute much of the cylinder wear to the "dirt hone" they got from the lousy urethane foam filter for the first 60K miles.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

I think the material is of a general classification "polyurethane", but there are at least two major types, open and closed cell. Obviously a filter would need to be open cell to allow air to pass, and closed cell is commonly used for insulation, like the liquid spray cans that expand to a closed cell structure to fill voids and cracks in home construction.

Heat accelerates deterioation (hood pads, filter elements), but even if carefully stored in sealed bags at moderate temperature the stuff disintegrates into a sticky goo in 10-15 years.

The butt joint of the OE foam element on my 340 HP engine broke while I was cleaning it in 1968 at about 60K miles, and the replacement I bought from a dealer was the A353C. When I disassembled the engine at 115K miles the only measureable wear was in the cylinder bores. Two were worn .005" at the top and the rest were .003". The crankshaft measured right in the middle of the OE dimension range, the Morraine 400 bearings looked virtually new, and even the old Duntov cam was in spec, but probably had an average of about .001" wear over the nose.

The only serious problem was a crack at the bolt seat of the #7 conn. rod, which is why I took the engine apart. I knew those early 327 rods were weak, and who knows, the next time I took an excursion to 6500 it may have let go. My Magnaflux guy took me back in the shop, ran the test, which clearly showed the crack clear across the bolt seat and said I was "real luckly". I took a deep breathe and congratulated myself for the decision to tear down the engine even though it ran very strong (it was pretty much a dead heat between me and the handfull of FI cars I faced off against in rolling starts over the years) and had about the same oil consumption - about a quart every 1500 - as when new.

I attribute much of the cylinder wear to the "dirt hone" they got from the lousy urethane foam filter for the first 60K miles.

Duke

Duke-------

The original 1963-65 foam air cleaner element, GM #6418399, was discontinued in November, 1968 and replaced by the GM #6484339 (A 353C). That's a "clue" that maybe GM "recognized the deficiencies" in the original piece.

[Duke W.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

That's interesting. I distinctly recall replacing the foam element before I left Seattle in June '68, so the A353C must have been in the system before November. Was there a transistion period when both were available? I expect the dispostion of any remaining foam elements at parts distribution centers was "use until supply is exhausted".

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: L84 Air Filter Element

That's interesting. I distinctly recall replacing the foam element before I left Seattle in June '68, so the A353C must have been in the system before November. Was there a transistion period when both were available? I expect the dispostion of any remaining foam elements at parts distribution centers was "use until supply is exhausted".

Duke

Duke-----


Yes, the A 353C was, apparently, first released for the 1967 Cadillac application. So, it would have been available as early as later 1966. Both the A 353C and the original 6418399 would have been available from that time until the 6418399 was finally discontinued in November, 1968. That date would have been the date that the last one was shipped out of a GM parts warehouse. Manufacturing would have ended well prior to that time. Of course, dealers could have had the 6418399 in stock well after November, 1968.

Also, it could well be that Delco parts dealers (and, even GM dealers who sometimes get parts through the Delco system) were selling the A 353C for the 63-65 Corvette application well before the date the 6418399 was discontinued through GM.