NCRS Judging Awards

[Jim L.]

Re: NCRS Judging Awards

Which, to repeat myself, is why you can shred/forget/erase/reformat that individual experience and try again till you can get the results you want.

I heard you the first time.

I've got the results that matter to me: Solid, original old Corvettes that are a hoot to drive, are not for sale, and don't need "validation" by anyone.

Why the narrow focus on engine pads is my sole question.

Ask someone in authority within NCRS. That's where the obsession with "matching numbers", whatever that is, started.

Jim

[Michael W.]

Re: NCRS Judging Awards

Jim,

NCRS has already taken steps within to minimize the importance of the stamp pad. The all important machine code carries the same number of points as a functioning cigar lighter during the ops check.

'Matching numbers' was around long before the NCRS- and not within the Corvette crowd in any case.

[Everett P.]

Re: NCRS Judging Awards

Why the inordinate focus on the pad ? If an owner is not satisfied with the judges evaluation, shred the results and go to another meet and try again. It could very well be that the judge at any given meet is dead wrong, for a number of reasons. Why take the results of one meet as life or death?

Same applies to just about any feature of the car, not just the pad.

With this response and the costs of judging our cars, makes me think that this organization is not to be as respected as I once thought it to be. With the costs involved to be a member, do our cars, and to get questionable results leads me to believe that my money could be better spent elsewhere.

[Michael J.]

Re: NCRS Judging Awards

Michael,

If the engine pads were being authenticated and certified by bona fide and accredited experts who held themselves accountable in a court of law then I would agree, yes, all pad judging would be critical.

But none of the above happens in Flight Judging.

Agreed this is not what happens in Flight Judging, but to repeat myself, the judges opinion of that all important engine pad stamp IS important to your car and it's value. If you think not, just try to sell one that has been judged as bogus or NTFP. The buyer will immediately deduct many thousands of $$, and if you think you can just shred your sheets and no one will remember the car, think again, this is a very close knit and gossipy group with hundred of members who know most all cars and their judging histories. That scarlet letter will be with you always.

[Michael W.]

Re: NCRS Judging Awards

Again- the car owner is the only person that has judging sheets which indicate that the particular judges of the day didn't like the pad. Nobody else. There is no registry of pads within the NCRS.

There's hundreds of judges within the NCRS and mistakes are made all the time at all levels- look at Jim L's experience above. Any buyer with half a brain would hire a professional with credentials to make a call on a questionable pad prior to paying original engine money for a car rather than listen to the rumour mill.

If Flight Judging is considered the be all and end all for establishing pad credibility-what about 'the last '67'?

[Ron H.]

Re: NCRS Judging Awards

My problem in judging stamp pads is that by injecting subjectivity (and it is subjective), and analyzing broach marks, runs contrary to the NCRS stated mission of factory authentication. To say a stamp pad gets full deduction because a broach mark is "not typical" of factory originality is crazy. The broach marks were a result of a very imprecise and unintended consequence of production. Not an intended feature of the vehicle production process.The only thing that should matter on a stamp pad is the engine prefix and serial number. Thats like saying George on the interior finish line used to put a screwdriver scratch under the driver side door handle. Therefore if its not there, its incorrect.

[Terry M.]

Re: NCRS Judging Awards

My problem in judging stamp pads is that by injecting subjectivity (and it is subjective), and analyzing broach marks, runs contrary to the NCRS stated mission of factory authentication. To say a stamp pad gets full deduction because a broach mark is "not typical" of factory originality is crazy. The broach marks were a result of a very imprecise and unintended consequence of production. Not an intended feature of the vehicle production process.The only thing that should matter on a stamp pad is the engine prefix and serial number. Thats like saying George on the interior finish line used to put a screwdriver scratch under the driver side door handle. Therefore if its not there, its incorrect.

Sorry Ron, but the broach marks were very much an intended part of production. You see the surface of the cylinder case had to be not only flat but have a certain roughness in order for the gasket to seal the cylinder case to the head. Too smooth or too rough and the chance of leakage at the cylinder case gasket surface went up dramatically.

There was a paper about the broaching process from 1955 that was reproduced in The Restorer about a year or two ago that described the need for the proper deck surface finish on the then-new V8 engine. Unfortunately the reproduction was a little small to read, but those of us who saw the original paper will remember the details -- it went into a lot of them.