1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

[Chris B.]

What would this typically result in as for as a point deduction, if any?

There are different high and low side refrigerant taps involved as the only visually apparent features.

I'm sure this applies to any modern A/C system retrofit to R-134a.

[Brian M.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

Remove the retrofit fittings and replace the original caps afterwords. Why not stay with R12?

[Gary C.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

Chris, several Members have used Duracool inplace of R12 with very good results. Duracool does not require any change of hardware. http://www.duracool.com/ Gary....

[Paul J.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

Chris, several Members have used Duracool inplace of R12 with very good results. Duracool does not require any change of hardware. http://www.duracool.com/ Gary....

Actually, thier web site says that you have to convert R12 systems to R134a in order to use DURACOOL 12a.

http://www.duracool.com/Duracool/faqs.html

However, I think they're only saying this because of EPA rules. I believe that you don't have to change anything. This looks like a good product and an excellent solution for R12 systems.

Paul

[Michael M.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

To change from one refrigerant to another the A/C system must be fully evacuated. Then refrigerant oil must be added and then the freon. Its not good to mix R-12 and R-134.

[Brian M.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

Why change when R12 is so readily available?

[Tom L.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

I met a man selling this product at carlisle a couple of years ago and after being in the commercial refrigeration buisness I had some specific questions about his product and he had little to say other than provide sales info. I walked away and never looked back until this thread.

Tonight I looked at the website carefully and found this in the FAQ section..

"Are the pressure and volume charts absolutely correct?
No, just like any other refrigerant, the pressure and volume charts should be used as a GUIDE.
We have found that you can have three of the same cars, same age, and they will all take different amounts of refrigerant, not significant differences, but different in volume. The key is to use the chart as a guide rather than the rule. Often systems have component changes such as longer or shorter hoses - these types of changes may affect the volume which will affect the stated or recommended charge"

Saying pressure charts are a "guide" is 100% false, anyone that understands what superheat is will agree. Aparently they don't and if they don't it will be very difficult to get product support if you have problems.

I also took the time to see what the EPA has to say about hydrocarbon refigerants. Here's the link, http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html look at question #4. I think that this and the other questions may persuade you to persue other alternatives.

Just to be clear, I'm not disputing the effectiveness of the product just some of their claims. It's like so many other reproduction products that make promises and don't deliver.

As far as judging goes, While it is possible to determine the type of refrigerant in a system I doubt that most judges have the equipment or knowlege (no offense) to identify a refrigerant in your car. You will need very expensive equipment or one of those Pressure charts that some think are simply guides.

[Chris B.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

Remove the retrofit fittings and replace the original caps afterwords. Why not stay with R12?

Car was already converted to R-134a when I bought it.

[Paul J.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

To change from one refrigerant to another the A/C system must be fully evacuated. Then refrigerant oil must be added and then the freon. Its not good to mix R-12 and R-134.

You cannot mix R12 and R134a, that's not what we're saying. Go to the DURACOOL web site and read it.

[Dick W.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

Chris, several Members have used Duracool in place of R12 with very good results. Duracool does not require any change of hardware. http://www.duracool.com/ Gary....

Be aware than none of the OEM manufacturers have approved the use of any of the snake oil alternatives in their systems. No one has done any testing as to what the long term use of these products will do to a system.

Also most A/C repair stations are testing the refrigerant in the vehicles before they begin any repairs. If the refrigerant in the vehicle is not R-12 or R-134a, they are turning the vehicles away. They do not want to contaminate their equipment with any of these products.

I cannot speak to the point deduct, but it should be very minimal. The fittings are a minor deviation of the configuration of the system.

[Peter M.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

Remove the retrofit fittings and replace the original caps afterwords. Why not stay with R12?

Just change the fittings back to the OEM configuration and no one will ever know its R134a. Just make sure you never mix the two refrigerants. AND, if you ever sell the car, make sure your tell them it has been converted to R134a.

[William C.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

Generally, unless the original hoses have been damaged, the fitting change is via a screw-on adapter, which can be unscrewed and the original caps replaced. Just remember if gettring the system serviced to alert the shop that you are running 134A

[Tom L.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

Paul, I'm not sure what you're saying either. Are you suggesting that there are any refrigerants can be mixed? In 20+ years in the buisness I can only think of two of the many refrigerant availible that can be mixed. These refrigerants are only used in low temperature applications and thier use will NEVER be applied to our cars.

One thing that seems to be a theme on the board here is the value of NOS. While I believe that there are viable alternaives to R-12, I'm not sure that the alternative discuased here is one of them.

If you are concerned about judging problems with 134a, go NOS, AKA R-12. It's availible and probably cheaper than the alternative discussed here.

And by the way, other than the fittings on the lines, do judges have the ability, or desire, to tell what refrigerant is being used?

[Dick W.]

Re: 1985 - Point deduction for R-12 to R-134a Conversion

Generally, unless the original hoses have been damaged, the fitting change is via a screw-on adapter, which can be unscrewed and the original caps replaced. Just remember if gettring the system serviced to alert the shop that you are running 134A

Bill, et al, all the conversions that I have done, the fittings had a sealant similar to Loctite on the threads. I tried to remove one of the fittings, but quit because I was afraid I would damage/destroy one of the aluminum hard lines. Heat will release Loctite, but depending on the location of the fittings, I might be hesitant to apply such.