64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

[M W.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

Thanks for the help Harry.

Cheers,
Craig

[Harry S.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

Craig, thanks. This is good info for me also as I need a cam for my 63. I'm just wondering who make the cams for NAPA, is it Federal-Mogul or one of the name brands like Comp or the now "out of business" Crane?

[Joe C.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

Harry and M. Craig:

Duke might not be out of the rack yet, as it is currently 06:32 local at his domicile.

[Duke W.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

I just did a NAPA search on 3896929 and selected the interchange option. Here is the result:

http://www.napaonline.com/NOLPPSE/(S(u2oogr45wahe5aneoujgce55))/Results.aspx?Ntt=3896929&Ntk=Interchange%20Number&N=0&Nty=1&D=3896929&Dn=0&Dk=1&Dp=3

Duke, do you know who makes NAPA cams? is it FM?

Notice that the product line is Sealed Power. This is a brand name that has been mentioned enough on this site that everyone should know the source.

They make a complete line of OE replacement parts and IMO you cannot go wrong with Sealed Power replacement parts. In most cases they are the exact same part from the exact same plant as what GM is selling at inflated prices.

Some OE parts like SHP cams are marketed under the Speed Pro brand - same manufacturer, same quality you can trust. All the OE cams are available in one of the above brand names.

If you're restoring an OE engine you can buy everything under these brands at NAPA and most other parts store chains - whatever is most convenient. Two exceptions might be pistons and connecting rods.

Keith Black brand hypereutectic pistons are a good choice for base engines, and Crower Sportsman or Eagle SIR rods will probably may have to be procurred through speed parts vendors.

The 1957-1966 base engine camshaft (3732798 finished camshaft, 3733431 cam/pin assembly, which is what was sold by GMPD) was replaced by the 3896929 cam/pin assembly for the 1967 MY and became the service replacement for the ...431.

I have both drawings and have done dynamic analyses of the lobes. The ...929 has slightly different basic specs (.050" durations of 194/202 versus 196/196), but the big change is milder dynamics. I have actually seen a Web site that claims repros of the ...431, but I would not recommend it. The ...929 is a better design.

Sometime in maybe the nineties the ...929 was replaced by the 14088839. I have this drawing too, and the changes from the ...929 are so slight, I have no idea why the changes were made. Basically both fall within manufacturing tolerance of the other.

The ...839 has now apparently been replaced, but I don't have the drawing an don't know the detailed changes.

In any event, a ...929 reproduction cam is perfectly acceptable for any base cam engine restoration. The general performance characteristics of all four are essentially the same and any differences are at a low level of engineering detail.

Duke

[John H.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

I also show the Speed-Pro #CS1103R as a blueprint dupe of the "929" cam.

[Duke W.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

...very slight difference in specs according to the data on the NAPA web site, but it costs double the CS274. I doubt if the most sensitive dyno would show any significant difference in performance. Go figure!

The CS1103R specified lifts actually exceed the .929 drawing nominals of .26000/.27333" plus two thou max tolerance by a few thou, so this "blueprint" cam actually doesn't conform to the ...929 drawing.

Duke

[Harry S.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

After reading through this thread and looking at the archives I have now become confused, normally easy to do that.

Anyway, in this thread and in the archives it says:

GM cam 12364051 is the replacement for 3896929
GM cam 14060651 is the replacement for 3896929

I sent an email to Mr. Goodwrench and the reply was 14060651 is the 3896929 replacement.

Can I get another vote!!!

Here is why I am tryng to resolve the question....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-Chevrolet-small-Block-hydraulic-camshaft-350-new_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a4Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a200QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem250387047748QQitemZ250387047748QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Thanks

[Joe L.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

After reading through this thread and looking at the archives I have now become confused, normally easy to do that.

Anyway, in this thread and in the archives it says:

GM cam 12364051 is the replacement for 3896929
GM cam 14060651 is the replacement for 3896929

I sent an email to Mr. Goodwrench and the reply was 14060651 is the 3896929 replacement.

Can I get another vote!!!

Here is why I am tryng to resolve the question....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-Chevrolet-small-Block-hydraulic-camshaft-350-new_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a4Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a200QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem250387047748QQitemZ250387047748QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Thanks

Harry-----


GM #12364051 is a Crane-manufactured camshaft KIT available through GM. It contains a reproduction of the 3896929 camshaft plus 16 Crane valve lifters.

GM #14060651 is a GM-manufactured camshaft which replaces the GM #3896929 and has almost identical specifications. With this part number, NO lifters are included.

Just how much longer the Crane piece will be available is anyone's guess. Likely, only until existing GMSPO stock is depleted. GM may or may not then come up with another kit supplier.

[Joe L.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

Notice that the product line is Sealed Power. This is a brand name that has been mentioned enough on this site that everyone should know the source.

They make a complete line of OE replacement parts and IMO you cannot go wrong with Sealed Power replacement parts. In most cases they are the exact same part from the exact same plant as what GM is selling at inflated prices.

Some OE parts like SHP cams are marketed under the Speed Pro brand - same manufacturer, same quality you can trust. All the OE cams are available in one of the above brand names.

If you're restoring an OE engine you can buy everything under these brands at NAPA and most other parts store chains - whatever is most convenient. Two exceptions might be pistons and connecting rods.

Keith Black brand hypereutectic pistons are a good choice for base engines, and Crower Sportsman or Eagle SIR rods will probably may have to be procurred through speed parts vendors.

The 1957-1966 base engine camshaft (3732798 finished camshaft, 3733431 cam/pin assembly, which is what was sold by GMPD) was replaced by the 3896929 cam/pin assembly for the 1967 MY and became the service replacement for the ...431.

I have both drawings and have done dynamic analyses of the lobes. The ...929 has slightly different basic specs (.050" durations of 194/202 versus 196/196), but the big change is milder dynamics. I have actually seen a Web site that claims repros of the ...431, but I would not recommend it. The ...929 is a better design.

Sometime in maybe the nineties the ...929 was replaced by the 14088839. I have this drawing too, and the changes from the ...929 are so slight, I have no idea why the changes were made. Basically both fall within manufacturing tolerance of the other.

The ...839 has now apparently been replaced, but I don't have the drawing an don't know the detailed changes.

In any event, a ...929 reproduction cam is perfectly acceptable for any base cam engine restoration. The general performance characteristics of all four are essentially the same and any differences are at a low level of engineering detail.

Duke

Duke-----


Sealed Power, Speed-Pro, and TRW (engine parts only) are all brands which are part of Federal-Mogul. They do often have different part numbers for equivalent parts depending on the particular brand. I don't know if the parts are actually any different, though.

[Harry S.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

Thanks Joe,

Then I can assume the $10.00 cam in the eBay auction is essentially the 929 cam?

[Joe L.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

Thanks Joe,

Then I can assume the $10.00 cam in the eBay auction is essentially the 929 cam?

Harry-----


Yes, I believe so. These cams are "take-out" cams from GM crate engine assemblies that some GM dealers build up to higher performance levels and sell under their own part numbers.

It actually depends upon which, particular, crate engine these come out of. However, I believe they come out of the 260 hp base 350 sold by GM as a replacement NEW engine competing in cost with factory REBUILT engines. These engines contain camshaft GM #14060651 or 14088839. Either of these cams is virtually identical to the 3896929. No one will EVER know the difference between them when installed in an engine. In fact, if any person, highest level judge or otherwise, tells you they can tell the difference, they're "blowing smoke". PERIOD.

[William V.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

Crane is in business and the cams are available. The company was acquired by Mikronite.

[Joe L.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

Crane is in business and the cams are available. The company was acquired by Mikronite.

Bill-----


I believe the Mikronite take-over occurred almost 3 years ago. In fact, I think that it was Mikronite that recently closed down Crane. As far as I know, it's not a bankruptcy per se. It's just Mikronite shutting them down, possibly to stem further losses. Or, Mikronite has declared bankruptcy. Or, Mikronite got what they wanted from Crane and now they're "casting off" the "left-overs".

I understand that one of the things that occurred was that after the Mikronite take-over, they sold the Crane real estate and physical plant facilities to some real estate fund in Boston. Then, they leased back the facilities at some outrageous price from that owner. Eventually, these costs bled Crane dry.

The exact same thing happened with Mervyn's Department Stores. So-called "hedge funds" were at the root of it all.

[Reba W.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

Unless they have reopened the doors, Crane shut down and laid off all employees a couple of weeks ago. PS this ain't Reba, this is her old man

[Duke W.]

Re: 64-327-300 HP Cam replacement help

Agree with Joe. The Mikronite acquistion was several years ago. Check the date on that article.

IMO Crane is probably history. ...wish it wasn't so, but one has to be realistic. Few divisions that are shut down by their parent corporations are ever reopened.

Crane is likely a victim of all the financial manipulation that's been going on for waaaaaay too long. This story is probably being repeated nearly every day in cities and towns across America with little companies most of us have probaby never heard of. You can't build wealth or maintain a business on a foundation of financial quicksand.

Duke