Source for flat capped u-joints

[William B.]

Looking for a source for flat capped u-joints , like the original equipment was. judging manuals call for these on rear half shafts and driveshaft.

[Brian M.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

Looking for a source for flat capped u-joints , like the original equipment was. judging manuals call for these on rear half shafts and driveshaft.

Bill,

I was able to source flat cap universal joints w/o grease fittings for the half shafts from Paragon (#5728). I called them and had the customer service person pull them to confirm.

I was unable to get flat cap universal joints w/o grease fittings for the drive shafts, so I settled for the Paragon (#5724). The customer service person did look.

See you in June!

[Tony S.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

William, we really can't see the U-joints in the drive shaft, so just get the U-joints for the half shafts. There are 16 caps in the half shafts, so it is a meaningful part of the half shaft judging (configuration). Stepped caps get a 1-point deduction from the 65 and 66 chassis judges. I can't speak for the 63, 64 or 67 teams. Hope that helps. Tony

[Joseph S.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

Let's do the math. 5 points for Driveshaft and Half Shaft assemblies. How are we splitting up the points between 2 1/2 shafts, 2 Yokes, 1 Drive shaft. 6 UJoints, 52 pieces of hardware(nuts, straps, locks)?

[Tony S.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

1 point Joe. Some features have greater weight than others. It is not just 52 divided by whatever. You have to weigh the importance of the components. U-Joints aren't just "hardware". There are 16 caps and make up a pretty major part of the line item.

Let me make my point by this example: how many components in a 5-point lower A-arm? You have the large steel A-arm itself, the cross shaft, the two bushings, the ball joint, the cotter pin, the nut and washer on top of the ball joint, the zerk, the two rivets, the rubber bumper, the two bolts that attach the bumper to the A-arm. Did I miss anything? That's about 12 items. So each of these represents 1 of 12. The ball joint rivets should be natural, right? If the two rivets are painted black, that is only a minor finish deviation but too small to deduct for a 1-point finish deduction on a 5-point item. Right? Change the example: let's say that everything is typical factory, but the steel A-arm itself is unpainted (should be gloss black). The steel A-arm itself is still only 1/12 of the line item by your analysis. But if the steel A-arm itself is unpainted, then the proper deduction is 1 for finish because that one item is the major component even though it is 1/12 of the entire assembly by your math analysis.

The point is this: sometimes you have to weigh the components by importance. It isn't always just add up the components and divide. It often is, but not always.

[Joseph S.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

We've taken this thread off the intended path. The original thread was for a source for flat caps. I was just trying to show Bill that there is not that much weight given to "just the Caps" on the entire 1/2 shaft assembly. Most judges will just write him a note and let him know about the proper caps.

[Harry S.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

Yep, write a note, slash the box and move along!

[William B.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

Thanks everyone, calling Paragon tomorrow. my 66 judged in 2017 regional never received a deduct for u-joints, my 65 judged last year regional received the 1 point deduction, both have stepped u-joints.
Restoring a 67 now and want to be more correct.

[Joseph S.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

1 point Joe. Some features have greater weight than others. It is not just 52 divided by whatever. You have to weigh the importance of the components. U-Joints aren't just "hardware". There are 16 caps and make up a pretty major part of the line item.

Let me make my point by this example: how many components in a 5-point lower A-arm? You have the large steel A-arm itself, the cross shaft, the two bushings, the ball joint, the cotter pin, the nut and washer on top of the ball joint, the zerk, the two rivets, the rubber bumper, the two bolts that attach the bumper to the A-arm. Did I miss anything? That's about 12 items. So each of these represents 1 of 12. The ball joint rivets should be natural, right? If the two rivets are painted black, that is only a minor finish deviation but too small to deduct for a 1-point finish deduction on a 5-point item. Right? Change the example: let's say that everything is typical factory, but the steel A-arm itself is unpainted (should be gloss black). The steel A-arm itself is still only 1/12 of the line item by your analysis. But if the steel A-arm itself is unpainted, then the proper deduction is 1 for finish because that one item is the major component even though it is 1/12 of the entire assembly by your math analysis.

The point is this: sometimes you have to weigh the components by importance. It isn't always just add up the components and divide. It often is, but not always.

Tony, I feel I need to correct your math. If you take a 20% Configuration for the U joints, by taking a 1 point deduction you are placing 5 points value on the UJoints alone and 0 points value on the rest of what is there. You need to assign a value to the Drive shaft & Yokes, a value to the 1/2 shafts and a value to the 52 Hardware items. The UJoints alone can not be valued at 5 points.

[Stewart L.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

Mike at Americas Finest is the manufacturer/importer and the other vendors source them from him.

[Joseph T.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

William
The 1967 Judging team has discussed the "U-joint flat cap" subject on numerous occasions and felt that it doesn't warrant a deduction with only 5 points assigned to both half shafts and drive shaft. We will make a note about them and move on. Good luck with your restoration

[Joseph S.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

Mike at Americas Finest is the manufacturer/importer and the other vendors source them from him.

Hmmm! I think I'll stay with a Spicer or MOOG part!

[Joseph S.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

1 point Joe. Some features have greater weight than others. It is not just 52 divided by whatever. You have to weigh the importance of the components. U-Joints aren't just "hardware". There are 16 caps and make up a pretty major part of the line item.

Let me make my point by this example: how many components in a 5-point lower A-arm? You have the large steel A-arm itself, the cross shaft, the two bushings, the ball joint, the cotter pin, the nut and washer on top of the ball joint, the zerk, the two rivets, the rubber bumper, the two bolts that attach the bumper to the A-arm. Did I miss anything? That's about 12 items. So each of these represents 1 of 12. The ball joint rivets should be natural, right? If the two rivets are painted black, that is only a minor finish deviation but too small to deduct for a 1-point finish deduction on a 5-point item. Right? Change the example: let's say that everything is typical factory, but the steel A-arm itself is unpainted (should be gloss black). The steel A-arm itself is still only 1/12 of the line item by your analysis. But if the steel A-arm itself is unpainted, then the proper deduction is 1 for finish because that one item is the major component even though it is 1/12 of the entire assembly by your math analysis.

The point is this: sometimes you have to weigh the components by importance. It isn't always just add up the components and divide. It often is, but not always.

Tony, We shouldn't be breaking an A Arm into components. The rule is that a component should be assessed as it is retrieved from the parts shelf. Since the A Arm is assembled and painted as a unit the entire A Arm should have a value of 2.5 points each side. This has been and will again be discussed during the CDCIF class at the Judges Training Retreat.

[Tim L.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

I bought all the flat cap u joints that Paragon had about 6 months ago. I have 4 that I will sell if you can't find them, PM me.

[Tony S.]

Re: Source for flat capped u-joints

Joe: I suspect I will be participating as an instructor there in some capacity per our mutual friend.